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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:35 pm

If god is against humanity (not that there is one) then why would he have created us? (not that he did)

And then the thread disappeared in a puff of logic :)

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:18 am

dang it, there's that stupid logic making stuff disappear again. =D

I agree, Thanatos. I believe a god that created humanity would do so because it either had intrinsic value, or there was something else to gain from it. Still, some can argue that God created the world so that he could play sick cruel games of torturing us much like a 5 year old does to ants with a magnifying glass.

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:20 am

Yeah. There is, like, none of that going on. Totally. *coughAFRICAcough*

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:21 am

Right, so there you go. Again, people's experience are gonna kind of influence their beliefs. People are helped, some blame God, some blame the people that helped them. People are hurt, some blame God, some blame the people that hurt them.

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:24 am

Meh. If god sits there on his cloud, twiddling his thumbs and watching people starve, drown, get shot, raped, murdered, and endure all sorts of s*** hardships as far as im concerned he can hang himself with his big white puffy beard.

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:26 am

I love your heart, Than! You have a heart for justice and care for innocent people. You want the evil punished and the good rewarded. You seem like a no-nonsense kind of guy that just wants the truth and things to really change. I definitely admire that.

I might recommend "The Shack" to you. It offers an extremely fresh and clean perspective on the character of God and tackles all of these sorts of issues. About a guy who's 5 year old daughter gets kidnapped, raped, and killed, and how he works that out with God. Interesting stuff. Good reading, compared to all these "perfect" little books offering steps 1,2,3 on why God does this and that and blah blah blah. The shack is a story and converstaion that's messy. I like messy. Feels like truth is in the messy.

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

You get a well deseved *hug* from me. :D Elex will tell you how awesome they are.

Sure, I'll take a look at it.

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:31 am

Awz! Thanks, man!

yeah, I think you'll dig the book. it's challenging for believers and non-believers alike to be sure, but not in that "you're wrong, you have to believe this" sort of way. stories are like that. people can pull out truth from it rather than having shoved in their faces. alright, man, i'm outta here for the night. Love!

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:36 am

w00t! Consider yourself sigged.

EDIT: Ha! Your post (combined with the [quote.][/quote.]) is exactly 256 characters long, and the forum only allows 255! :lol: Goodbye full stop.
EDIT 2: Just read the plot (Thanks Wiki) and it sounds alright. Next time I have the time I'll get a pirate version from Frostwire.
EDIT 3: Deja Vu! I knew that us three (lyte, Red and I) would be here at this moment. Mwahaha :twisted:

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:47 am

Thanatos wrote:Meh. If god sits there on his cloud, twiddling his thumbs and watching people starve, drown, get shot, raped, murdered, and endure all sorts of s*** hardships as far as im concerned he can hang himself with his big white puffy beard.



Well this does happen, so according to the way you describe it, god is doing just that.

But I Disagree that his beard is White :)...LOL

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:48 am

Stupid bastard is creating more air in his lungs - ugh.

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Elexxorine
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:35 am

Indeed Lyte, the real question is what colour god's beard is....

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Thanatos
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:22 am

Blood Red, for obvious reasons.

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Elexxorine
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:58 pm

Maybe the phrase should be 'caught red bearded?'

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paul_one
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Re: There is no God.

Postby paul_one » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:22 pm

People are much more complicated than that. Its a much more intense struggle (and worthy cause) to reconcile conflicting feelings and thoughts about who God is, rather than just some logical theorem of weather God is or isn't. Otherwise, we distance ourselves from moving towards finding what real truth is, and these "arguments" are just a charade preventing us from really delving into hardcore answers about life and community.

Finally, someone with a brain re-enters the forum... *sigh*.

Now, Lyte - it seems you went more into the theology of God - for example, there *IS* a God for all of us, believers and non-believers. For children it's their mothers (I love the quote 'Mother is God, in the eyes of a child'), when some grow up it may be their heroes, hopes and dreams, aspirations, a loved one, a child.

I see what you've basically put down is that "God" is basically whatever we believe in... Which I agree with...
God *CAN* be a bearded geezer in a white tux, with black tap-dancing shoes and a green fedora.
Or he could be your good-luck charm.
Or he could simply be the needed push in the right direction to get two people talking.

I don't agree with another part of your posts (sorry can't get an exact quote):
The question isn't about whether a Christian God exists, but if he is good/evil.... thinking about whether he does or doesn't exist stops us getting real (true) answers for the meaning of life

So, with the first you're assuming he does exist (ie: an assumption is when you take something as true without proof) - which, let's face it, is the whole point of belief.
You BELIEVE God is there without proof.. And let's face it, the Bible is like me telling you that I've seen alien's invading the back garden for the last 2 weeks - they are stories written down by MAN (the truth of these I'm not going to argue over).
Side note: I now hate myself for writing "let's face it" twice.

You're right that arguing over whether he exists is a tiny thing in the scope of everything else.
*BUT* if you're a religious person, then you must regard God as your 'meaning of life', and that he has some idea that you won't grasp until the end (or when you're playing checkers with him)... Since he created life - thus giving it it's meaning.

.. I've highlighted true up above because I found that a bit hypocritical - a religious person, as well as a sceptic, will NEVER be able to find the 'truth', since they are bias... Take the "Earth is Flat" cult, which completely denies people have gone to the moon and that the Earth is indeed flat. Take the fact that evolution is being removed from a great many US schools (actually, is that all of evolution or the man-from-ape theory of total evolution?).
Total truth is only found through asking questions, testing suppositions, and thus gaining 'answers'.
.. Personal truth, is gained through asking questions, understanding that there are no tests and thus, no real answers.
..... God (and religion) lies here.

Just because I don't clap, doesn't mean I don't exist
True, but just because *I* write down something, it doesn't make it true either.
Similar to the "if a tree falls in the woods and no-one hears it - does it make a noise?" (.... yes) question.
.. I guess the more important question is: what is the 'clap'?
What *are* the actions he does not - or more importantly **does** - take?
How can you possibly blame something else for all the bad/evil, since God infact created them (thus meaning there is just God, instead of God and the Devil)?

Skipping past that, and onto the last point:
most atheists hate God thus don't want him to exist
Sorry again for the "not-exact" quote.
I've often wondered if I'd hate God if I knew him to exist... It would be a lot easier for me to blame something for the wrongs in my life. (I'm not an atheist by the way... agnostic)
But then, thank him at the same time for simply existing. And also trusting that he would look out for me, and thus be more free to chase after what I wanted... Although things are usually different when thinking about what you *would* do "if...".

Yes I do have a downward view on my life - not that I'm not optimistic: I believe in human kindness, I look for the best in people, etc. Not that too much has gone wrong for me (I haven't been beaten, raped, etc)..
But more then that, it really takes something vindictive to make me angry (or idiotic). And as such I don't think I would hate him - but neither would I love him.. I would treat him as I treat everything else, with common courtesy.

Anyhoo - I enjoyed writing this post :P .


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