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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:56 pm

Apologies at the start for a long response.

If you bother to leave a comment, please don't say "OMG UR AN IDIOT1!! LAWL".

Are you talking to me? When have I ever made a comment as pointless as that? It sounds like you're already on the extreme defensive here. May I ask how old you are? I am 31.

I'll answer your questions though as best I can without trying to offend you. Offending people doesn't help anyone.

God vs. Santa. That is an interesting comment if you really don't have a lot of knowledge about religion. In fact, you're putting down all religions with that comment, not just Christianity (which is more of a state of being; I will hit that in a second).

Believing in something with no evidence? Really? Where to begin. Just look around you at nature. Thousands of species of animals... thousands of species of plants... all working in harmony and perfect order.

Look bigger than that… planets circling a star in mathematical perfection. The universe itself is expanding at different speeds and changing speeds. Let’s assume one believes in a “big bang” (wherever that came from) and everything in existence expanded from that one explosion. Now think of the logistics of an explosion. Would chunks of an explosion slow down and speed up? Let’s go further than you’d want to know :). It’s been said that in an explosion, all the bits will spin the same direction. Obviously, that is not so with our universe… nor even our own solar system. Planets (and their moons) are all spinning at different speeds and different directions.

What about our body systems? All the systems that make you breathe, digest, pump your blood and carry oxygen. All of these work together in harmony and every human and animal has the same working systems inside of them. Did all of this come from an accident?

What about your own brain? Do you think an accidental explosion “billions of years ago” eventually settled everything into place? If your brain is the conclusion of an accident, how do you know it is capable of logical thought?

Can atheism be proven? Do atheists believe in something that cannot be proven? That’s faith. Atheism must be a religion.

Ok, let’s back to your comment.
Children are brainwashed
. Would it be any different if children were told at a young age to not believe in God? Why is it pathetic (as you say) to not believe in evolution? Now you’re insulting people because they don’t believe in what you believe. To me, it’s harder to believe in the whole evolution story but that’s my opinion.
Do Christians even read their Bible
… some do, some don’t. Do Atheists read the Bible? I don't know if you read the Bible but you did go online to find where other Atheists have misinterpreted sayings in the Bible to prove their points. There's a lot of that out there. I've looked just to see what people are saying.
Tell me where in the Bible I can read about how I need to murder people because they don’t believe in God. A lot of problems come from misinterpretation of the Bible.
who decides that you can pick and choose what aspects you follow
… There were many changes in the laws throughout the Bible from the Old to the New testament. There were even changes within the same testament. For example, after the creation of the world in Genesis, God indicates that we are to eat vegetables and for 2,000 years, you couldn’t eat meat until the time of the great flood when God said to Noah that they could then eat clean animals.

I can’t view the youtube videos in my present location; perhaps I’ll watch them when I get home. At least you put a comment about each one so I’ll respond to the comments for now. Your first one talks about stoning. You have to realize that the Bible isn’t just a rule book; it’s a history book too. It’s telling about what happened back then; it’s not always an instruction to us. Just because it said there was a stoning, doesn’t mean we are instructed to do it. Perhaps the video is more specific and I’ll reply to that later.

I’m interested in seeing what the second one is about. Your comment is pretty vague “god’s plan is impossible” so I can’t really respond to it now.

I will really have to see what video 3 is talking about. You reference steps to get into Heaven. There is only one step. Pray to ask Jesus to admit that you’re a sinner and ask Him to come into your life and save you from your sins. Bang, you’re done. And that’s when you become a Christian. A Christian is someone who has asked Jesus into their life to save them.

Video 4. Praying with “no answer”. If I asked you for a million dollars and you said no, should I assume that you didn’t answer me? No… you’re answer was “No”. People commonly think that God is a genii waiting to grant your wishes. He doesn’t work that way.

Video 5. Jesus appearing when you pray. Where does it say that in the Bible? I guess I need to watch the video.

So last point for now. You started this article talking about how there is no God because of the inhumane acts done to a dog. If there is no God, there is no moral base. How could there be if we all came from an accidental explosion? If there is no God, there is no Heaven and Hell. After we die, there is nothing. If there is no moral base, why is any act considered wrong? If we are all here by accident with no purpose, can’t we all do what we want to with no consequence?

I want to reiterate that I don't mind having these discussions. I do it without getting upset and name calling and I expect any others who wish to join in to maintain the same respect.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:54 am

Having watched the videos to be fair, I now know that I hit the nail on the head. All five videos are produced by the same fellow and in all five videos, he blatantly misinterprets the Bible. He is telling you how to interpret the Bible.. in video #2, he is not even talking about the Bible, he is having issues about what a modern book said about the Bible.

Because I enjoy these types of "puzzles", I took it upon myself to read the Bible verses that the fellow in the video claims we haven't read. After which, it is clear that he himself has not read it all.

I'm not going to pinpoint every single account but the best one is probably in video #3 when he quotes the Bible saying in Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple... In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple."

Let's scoot back a few verses that the video guy conveniently forgot to mention (or didn't read it himself). Luke 14:21 "So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. --verse 14:22-- And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. " and the conversation continues through the rest of that chapter.

Well how 'bout that? It wasn't the Lord God who is quoted in the first verse; it was a lord talking to his servant.

This is just one of the MANY clear examples that people try to use the Bible to get you to not believe the Bible or in God.

Although I found in humor in each video, video #3 had me rolling laughing. Pure comedic genius... with all the writing on the list of things you need to do to get to Heaven. That was funny. It's even more funny thinking the guy is being serious.

So, if we want to learn about the Bible, should we put our faith and beliefs in a guy who misinterprets the Bible in order to prove it wrong or should we learn more about the Bible from preachers who went to seminary to study the Bible at great lengths and then make an educated informed decision at that point?

We could continue this discussion if you like but I don't know how productive that would be. Who knows. From now on, I will try to save my long responses for private questions if you have any.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:16 pm

I had a really long reply typed out but the forum messed it up and I lost it.

I think the only way me can tell is when we die. Perhaps who-ever of us who dies first, if they can come back and give a message to the others should. It's the only way!
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:26 pm

awwww, I know how that feels to lose a long post.

Alright, if I die first, I'll send you back an email. lol.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:04 pm

Alighty, If I get an email saying you're dead, I'll be sure to let everyone know they got broadband in heaven.

It only messes up when you have long posts too.... :(
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:15 am

[quote]"Hmm, I wonder what happened to Paul..." *munches on sandwich*
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:25 am

He never understood computers.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:21 am

Paul? The saint or?

*steals sandwich* *munches sandwich*
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:51 am

Me? Or the sandwich?
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Re: There is no God.

Postby paul_one » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:58 pm

I developed the flu and DIED!! :o

Erm, those video's suck.
There's one video by that guy that actually was quite good but the rest were nonsense.

Just to say, the "superstition" part of that (an irrational belief) actually applies to God.
Afterall - what's rational in a belief in a multi-dimensional, quantum super-being with total power?

Anyway, let's have a look-see.

Some of those can fall into opinions. "Praying to Jesus and he will appear before you" is obviously meant in the non-literal context, as in a father saying to a son "I will always be with you" or "she will always be i your heart"... They aren't ACTUALLY in your heart.

The father xmas and God comparison is interesting, if only from the point of view that yes, they both have the same actual 'proof'.
God has his bibles and followers, as does Santa with his storybook's and movies and followers (don't wanna cross those kids!).

Let's just take a step back, and explain the DIFFERENCE between science and religion:
1) Science is based on unproven hypothesis that are then tested and proven to be mostly correct.
1.b) These can/do get revised continually since we're hardly ever correct 100% of the time - although we do get close sometimes.

2) Religion is the belief/faith that something exists in the absence of proof.
2.b) If they're right then they get into heaven - if they're not then they get the same deal as us.

Science starts out with a theory and then runs tests.
Exactly what 'test' can you do to test for God? What do you KNOW about God in the first place? ... Nadda. All you've got is word of mouth and hearsay. Not one fact that can give you a viable basis for any scientific experiment.

Ok, now Steve:
Putting down all religions with Santa.
Don't know about Buddhism, thought that was about a guy getting inner peace - never read up on the specifics.

Looking at nature/the universe is no rational or logical way to reason things out.
I might as well point to all the bad things and say "no God!". Or point to the sad girls and say "no God!"

Your theory of everything spinning in the same direction is flawed - probably on more levels then I really know.
But if one mass hits another mass, the spin and direction of that final mass is different
So depending on the impact of other objects influenced by larger objects, speed/spin/direction can change.

I think enough proof has been given for Evolution. The slight gradual change of animals has been found in many a fossil.
Also, the mysteries of the human brain, and it's achievement of creativity - music, art, etc - is still unknown.
Going from hunt-kill-eat-mate to us is a huge leap.

Our brains are 'capable' of logical thought - all we need to do is follow the rules (make sure there are no gaps for the outcome, etc).

Question:
Can atheism be proven?
...
Atheism is the non-belief in God.
It is not the belief that God does not exist, but the fact that we need proof before belief.
Therefore it is the fact that there is not proof of God which 'proves' atheism.

As for moral base - we all set the moral base as a collective community.
That is why each countries "moral base" is to a different standard.

... And what *IS* to stop you doing what you want to do?
As you say, being a Christian is simply asking for Jesus to come into your life.
You've no need to control what you do until the end.

Personally, without a god to keep me in check, I mostly respect people, I love people, I help people. And I do all this because I know it's the right thing to do to make both of us live better lives - cos that's all we have.
I don't do it because of an afterlive, or because I'll get good grades as judged by someone else.
.. And really, if you ARE doing it because of some religion - don't you need to take another look and see what live is all about?
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:27 pm

Finally, someone agrees with me.

But hell, lets hop from this Atheism train and get back on topic, shall we? The torture and brutal murder of a puppy.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:29 pm

So go back to the topic's topic and not its title?

I think we all agreed it was bad... Everyone signed the petition yet then?
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:09 am

*huff* I hope so. It would defeat the entire point of me posting it if it would just get flamed apart over my bad choice of title.


Thana
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Re: There is no God.

Postby paul_one » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:14 pm

I didn't sign it :P .

And I don't agree really.
True, I don't see the need for a God - but some people do.
I'm fine with that, until they start using it as justification, or as if it were a business (we need more people etc).
Or where they force kids to believe in things - it's like making a kid be vegetarian or dance on one leg every evening at 6pm so that the rains come.

Kids should grow up believing in all the magic of life - not just one way of it, and they should be able to choose their own way of life.
... Nuff said.

... Who wonders why God was often painted with a big fluffy beard like Santa?
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:51 am

Santa's an anagram of satan, lol. Don't get me started on how christmas is actually pagan. It's 3am here at the moment so I won't say now anyways....
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