Xanadu 2 removed prior to release - Just an FYI

XanMag
Xanadu awaiting Thursday release. The link has been deleted but if you've downloaded it, feel free to throw me any suggestions before I publicize on Thursday night! Thanks all!

OurJud
I'm going in...

Challenging is the word! I'm afraid I topped myself, the response to which gave me a laugh.

I'm not sure if you want us to discuss specifics in case of spoilers, but needless to say I didn't get very far. It was just too challenging for me.

from a design POV, I'm no fan of the default, and especially don't like the way the parser is pushed right to the foot of the browser. Having to read and type stuff right on the edge of the browser window makes me very uncomfortable. For that reason, I add a 200px margin to the bottom, in the game design tab.

I also think you need to consider more how people interpret your clues.

For instance (highlight below)

When I was told the back of my head itched, my immediate response was "scratch head'. When this got a negative response, I presumed I was barking up the wrong tree and spent a good ten minutes trying other commands. I eventually tried 'scratch itch' - which worked, but I very much suspect most will try 'scratch head'.

I got as far as the memories of the bag of pennies and the rod of light in the doorway. I tried every conceivable command here, all the logical ones and few illogical, all to no avail. Which is where I decided to top myself.


Sorry if this sounds too negative, but I'm guessing you want honest opinions.

XanMag
Absolutely. That's why I throw it out on beta before publishing publicly. I added 'head' to the 'itch' other names.

As for the bag of pennies: Here is the last line in that section of turn script: "If only you could focus on that bag of pennies you might remember happier times".

I thought it would be a gimme that the player should "focus on bag". Is it too obvious if I also bold the word focus? Uh oh. I did include a hint system because I knew it would be challenging. Just type hint.

Also, of all the people that post on the forum, I thought to myself, I don't think OurJud would like this. :lol: Your game writing style is very different than mine from what I can tell. But, with that said, you are exactly the kind of person I need testing my game! So, if you are bored and get a chance... give it another go! But you'll need to focus on things (as you are coming out of unconsciousness from part 1). I did include a hint system because I knew it would be challenging. Just type hint.

Oh, yea. Also, I like the idea of moving the parser...

I add a 200px margin to the bottom, in the game design tab.

I cannot find that anywhere nor can I find 'game design'. Would you let me know where it is so I can take a look at it?

Thanks!

OurJud
Thanks for not getting the hump. I don't like telling anyone I wasn't keen on their game.

As for the focus on the bag... again, it's my way of thinking vs yours, because I typed 'focus pennies' / ' focus on pennies'. To me the pennies are the relevant thing here, not the bag.

Also, I knew about the hint, and I need to tell you there's an error when you type 'hint (whatever)' 'hint' alone works, but it returns an error if you use it with a room or object.

As for the bottom margin, sorry for not explaining properly - I was going off memory.

From the main interface in Quest.

Highlight 'Game' (left panel) >> Interface tab (main section) >> tick 'Set Custom Padding'

XanMag
Oooh... I like that. Just made a slight change in the location of the text box!

The focus on, focus should also no longer be an issue. Changed that to accommodate.

Also, I added a response to hint "room" you mentioned. It basically directs the player to simply type 'hint' at which point you will be prompted to ask about a specific room or NPC.

Keep it coming!

And what does "...getting the hump mean?" :lol: Must be an English thing! Go ManU!

OurJud
You're not English??

I did wonder about the 'Mom' in your game, but presumed you were just using a generic Americanism. I'd have bet my house on you being a Brit, judging by the tone of your posts and avatar :shock:

'Getting the hump' just means taking offence.

OurJud
Still getting the following error on hint 'room'.

Error running script: Error compiling expression '"somewhere just outside your cell smothered by a large guard";"smothered"': SyntaxError: Unexpected character: ;Line: 1, Column: 62

Mmm, and now it's working. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

XanMag
@OJ and Pixie's - in the 'key' for my hints I had typed "blah blah blah";"blah blah..." instead of using a comma! Dumb commas. Dumb semi-colons! That little problem is solved now. Thank you both.

I also tried to streamline the commands in the beginning to make it a tad simpler to really get into the game. Example: once in the cold, dark cell, all you need to do is listen, smell, and feel instead of being a little more specific with the commands! Your other suggestions have also been considered/corrected. Thanks!

If you, or any one else, want to continue testing, please do!! I'll continue testing the game myself and I plan on publishing publicly early next week.

jdpjdpjdp
You asked me to test, and test I did. I gave it a few minutes (all I ever do on a first play, will return later for more), and my major thought is this:

Erase your entire introduction. Start in the Cold Dark Room, with the Man Card in your pocket. I am being 100% serious.

You go through, by my count, about a dozen non-choice choices. That introduction had one thing you could do, then one thing you could do, and so on for WAY too long... it was the text adventure equivalent of a CYOA game with only one link at the bottom of a page. You WILL lose players with an introduction that long and forcibly linear. If any of the content of that introduction is relevant to the story, find another place to work it in. But your game truly starts with a man groggily waking up in a room, with only this card, trying to get out. So start there.

Just my personal opinion, for whatever that's worth. I will try and give it a deeper play through in the next day or two and give any added feedback.

XanMag
I'll consider it, but personally I like the intro. It is suppose to start linear. You've been clobbered on the head and you are starting to "come to". Your senses awaken one at a time. Information presented in the intro is not "relevant" really but it's one of the few parts of the game where the player gets a "personal moment" with Xanadu. Once you awaken and get out of the cell, the game opens WIDE up for you to explore.

If you get a chance to play the game at length, I think you'll appreciate the intro. Maybe... and hopefully? X2 is a TA on steroids. It's super large. So big, in fact, that it would take me a good 45-60 minutes to complete and that obviously only includes me doing the bare minimum. I concede that the sheer size of it may be a turn off to some, but... It is what it is! In short, I think that the intro length is just about right for a game this size.

Anyway, I will certainly consider tweaking the introduction, but I will also be interested to see what you think after you've delved deeper into the game. Of what you've played so far, how was the difficulty? From OJ and TPs quick play/test, I've tried to adjust it to streamline the experience - to make it less "puzzling" and more of an introduction. Let me know and I hope you continue testing!

Thanks!

jdpjdpjdp
It's your game, so the most important person to please is you. If you like it, ignore me. I will not take it personally. :D

That said, I don't think the beginning of the game is where the player WANTS a "personal moment" with Xanadu, because if we didn't play the first game we don't know him yet. Why do I want to get inside the head of someone I have no investment in yet? If that's the goal, putting it at the beginning seems misplaced to me.

If you keep the intro as is, I would at least advise you to add some additional ways of getting where you want to go. Perfect example: you want me to focus on the pitter-patter. That's a sound, but I "can't hear much" with "listen", nor can I "listen to pitter-patter". Those options don't have to advance the game if what you want is the "focus" verb to be used, but they should at least yield a response other than the default (perhaps something that steers the player back to "focus").

Also, and no idea if this is a bug or if I screwed up some how, but I followed your hints and ****spoilers ahead****

...whatever that thing is in the grate didn't give me anything, but it did leave, so I can't advance any farther. (Also, your hint tells you to ask ABOUT help, but when you type that it tells you to ask it TO help. If you're going to require the player to be that precise, make sure the hint is precise also.)

XanMag
Those two bits have been corrected. Thanks for the help.

Could you tell me what you were doing precisely when 'the thing' did not return? Hopefully you just didn't wait the required 5 turns. I've been running all sorts of scenarios trying to duplicate it not returning and I cannot get that to happen. If it does not return for you that would be a flaw that I cannot explain. After asking for help (or to help), it is a simple 'after x number of turns' script and it returns with something to help you out.

Please let me know. If it's a true error, it MUST be fixed because that would be a fatal flaw. Thanks.

jdpjdpjdp
XanMag wrote:Hopefully you just didn't wait the required 5 turns.


That's got to be what it was, because now it works fine. I even re-ran it a couple times just to be sure, and it never once failed to show up after the five turns. I didn't realize I was THAT impatient, but I'm glad it's that and not something wrong with the game. Sorry to stress you out!

jdpjdpjdp
A few minor issues, and one significant bug. The biggie first:

Your first time as Blerk you can't access most of the vents yet. You can only get back out the way you came in. The problem is there are two cells you can enter the vent from, but when you come back out you always do so in the rubbish cell, even if you didn't enter there. If you changed and entered in the other E cell, Xan's body will be there, and you can never get back to it. That's a fatal flaw.

In the realm of the less catastrophic, some of the images don't load right:

-In the corner hallway NW of the hall outside the janitor's office, the sign loads when you "read sign" but not "x sign" or "look at sign".
-The picture of the janitor's pad also doesn't load, at all. Because I downloaded I was able to view it by going to the file directly, but since that picture has necessary info it's an important one to fix.
-"Read walls" in the middle bathroom stall works, but the resolution is so bad I can't read what it says. I assume this is a minor problem, but on the off chance that graffiti contains useful info, it needs to be more legible.

XanMag
Those are game saving finds! You're doing a GREAT job as a BETA tester! That first one especially since you are not even supposed to be able to get to that section of the VS until later in the game. Now that it is corrected, you'll find that you cannot even access that part of the vent. It is too dark to continue so you'll need a light source first.

That problem and the others you mentioned should now be fixed. I'm not sure why the sign is smaller than it should be... I tinkered with it and they all show smaller, but it is such a minor problem that I am willing to overlook it!

Did I mention how valuable you are as a beta-tester?!? I'll buy you a beer the next time I see you! For now, you'll have to settle for an in-game thank you in my 'about' command in the game as well as a public "thank you" on the forum! Thanks again!

The updated file is corrected and has been uploaded. Please, if you (or anyone else) is willing, continue beta-testing! I greatly appreciate it!

PS. Oh... if you haven't already, make sure you read the stalls until the pictures loop. There is an important name you need to catch on there.

jdpjdpjdp
Thank you and you're welcome.

I should point out that you might want to clue the player to the fact that there's more than one picture per stall, because I didn't know that until you just told me. I think most people, like me, will look once and be satisfied if they have no reason to think they'll see anything new by looking again, particularly since the content looks like it's just jokes and extras... tough place to hide something important and expect people to find it.

Good news is everything we talked about before looks to be fixed. Bad news, I'm still getting pictures that won't load. Specifically the armory diagram and the metal plate (the plate pic actually works when looked at, but the image tries and fails to display when opened). Since this is a recurring problem, and since those pictures usually contain vital information, I think a full check of all your pictures might be in order (fun as I'm sure that sounds).

Also, I'm totally stuck where to go from here. Maybe it's because of something in the pictures I can't see, or maybe I'm just stuck. Let me know when you've fixed the pics and I'll dive back in, see where it takes me.

XanMag
Yea. X2 was too big for the "HD" pics and I had to resize and "low def" the pics. Then I shrunk it enough so I went back through to reimage some of them again... It's related to that and I will fix soon.

You say you are stuck where to go from here... So, you've gotten into the armory and the warehouse. Which means you got fob B. Yes? I also assume you've been "summoned" to the commons?

There are two "difficult" parts of the game I think. Getting into the "hot" part of the VS and clearing the laboratory.

Anyway, I will fix the pics soon and let you know. Thanks again!

jdpjdpjdp
XanMag wrote:So, you've gotten into the armory...


Yes.

...and the warehouse.



Nope.

Which means you got fob B.



Yes.

also assume you've been "summoned" to the commons?



Nope. And now I realize I'm even more lost than I thought. :lol:

XanMag
Ha. Fob B grants access to warehouse and armory. You'll be summoned into the commons basically after you get through the hot vent. That part is one of the two tough parts I think. Good luck!

jdpjdpjdp
Yeah, I got through all that now. Do you know how many times I walked past the fershlugginah warehouse without realizing it was there? Ugh, my own stupidity sometimes.

Anyway, let me know when you've got a version up with all the pics working. I'm at a point now where it's becoming a significant hindrance for them to constantly fail to load, so I want to wait until it's fixed before I delve deeper.

jdpjdpjdp
Xan my man... we got problems. I'd planned to wait for a version with the pictures fixed before posting again, but there's too much stuff, and I think you should know about it ASAP, so you can get to work fixing it.

I wanted to keep testing, so I cheated... I looked into the game code to help me out where I needed it, so I could keep going. It's good that I did, because without that I wouldn't have been able to go forward, and I wouldn't have found some of this stuff.

(FOR ALL FUTURE PLAYERS, SPOILERS APLENTY PAST THIS POINT. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.)

The major bugs first:

-First off, once you gain access to the garage you can end the game without meeting any of the necessary criteria. Just go out and you escape. Nothing stops you from doing it, even if you have no codes, no vehicles disabled, no prep done.

-I also found another place where, as Blerk, you can get trapped. It's above the chem lab. If you haven't blocked the door yet, but you've mixed the gas, it tells you to leave the towel behind before you leave. But even after you drop the towel, it still says the same thing, meaning you can't leave at all.

-The motorcycle is, for all intents and purposes, hidden. You can interact with it, but it's not in the garage description, it doesn't appear in the places/items pane, and it's not included in the hints. Again, if I hadn't been peeking at the code, I'd never have known it existed.

-Even after disabling the tank, motorcycle, SUV, red car, black car, and ATVS, the garage still thinks I need to disable one more vehicle. If such a vehicle exists, I couldn't even find it in the code.

-Blerk never seems ready to leave. This may because the game still thinks I'm missing one vehicle, or it might be a separate problem entirely, but I've got all the other criteria (that I know of) met.

Some smaller issues:

-The "look at" button on your "gas spigot and valve" doesn't work. It says it can't see it, I think because it considers "gas spigot" AND "valve" as two items? I'm not sure.

-As far as I can tell, the mortar and pestle does nothing. It gets discarded at one point, which tells me you meant for it to serve a function, but all my attempts to use it failed. I was in the right neighborhood (the zinc), as that's where it gets discarded, but I never actually successfully used it for anything.

-For some reason, when you enter the commons, the room description displays twice, back-to-back.

-In the private office (the one you need the elevator to get to), there is an object in the panes called something like "Desk from hidden under desk". Kinda ruined that particular puzzle.

Also, a conceptual issue: you need to allow for a lot more variation in the commands the player can use. Sometimes it's just a matter of "use x on y" when only "use y on x" has been programmed to work. Sometimes "use" does nothing in favor of more specific verbs like "pour" or "push", but other times those same kinds of actions ONLY work with "use". It results in something very much like "guess the verb", where I know what I, and the game, want to do, but I have to find a particular phrasing to get it to actually perform that function. Going through and adding a bunch of command synonyms would be a real help to players.

(One particularly aggravating example of this, for me, is getting the napkin off the tray. "Drop napkin" doesn't work, but "take napkin" does? I get your reasoning after the fact, but it seems pretty counterintuitive in game.)

There's a really cool, albeit really tough, game under all this. But you need to do three things to make it what it can be:

1) Bug fixes (obviously).

2) Command synonyms. Seriously.

3) Hints, and I don't mean the hint system. I mean you need to use the descriptions to clue players where to go. Mention the stink of ammonia in the bathroom description without requiring the player to smell. Have Xan recognize a quote as being Sun Tzu. Note that the tube would be better if only you could find a way to shrink it. It isn't that your puzzles don't make sense, because they do... it's that there often isn't enough in the game to help the player connect the dots.

I hope all of this inspires you to fix the game up and make it perfect. I know it might seem like I'm piling on or being insulting, but believe me: if I didn't like what I've seen, I'd never have given this much time and effort to it. Hope this helps.

XanMag
Nope. Definitely makes sense. I'll get to correcting asap. All of the serious bugs are quite a surprise to me. Thank you very much and I'll keep you informed of my update progress. Thanks!

XanMag
When you disabled the ATVs, did you complete the disabling by putting the keys on the peg board in the mechanics office? I've corrected all the major errors except for this one. I can't figure out why it would give you that message.

Also... did you get the following message when you disabled the last vehicle?

"It seems like you have disabled all of the vehicles in the garage except for that one ATV. I assume you plan on riding that out of here once this garage door is opened. If you think you know the code, go ahead and try and enter it. But, be warned, the wrong code will likely trip an alarm and send a flood of death-seeking Dingoes your way.

<b><i><u>In other words, save it BEFORE entering any code into that panel!!</b></i></u>"

jdpjdpjdp wrote:-Blerk never seems ready to leave. This may because the game still thinks I'm missing one vehicle, or it might be a separate problem entirely, but I've got all the other criteria (that I know of) met.


Does Blerk ever go to the garage? This answer will help me establish where the problem lies. Hopefully, it's as simple as putting the keys on the peg board. I hope.

Also... (sorry)... did you get Strauss set up with the things he needs to escape? Boom thread, alcohol, and flint lighter?

Thanks again!

EDIT: I have, I believe, corrected everything you have so kindly mentioned. The only thing I haven't attacked yet is combing through the usage of 'use' scripts and broadening my commands. If you have suggestions on which commands you felt should work (other than those you already mentioned of course), please share.

jdpjdpjdp
Dumped my previous post, because the version you've uploaded as of today works fine! It recognized that I'd completed the vehicles and Blerk went along fine. Game successfully completed!

A few far smaller issues. A few we discussed before: the pictures of the mine and its diagram still don't work. The plate shows on "x plate" but not the initial "open plate", while the diagram picture will not show at all. Second, "look at gas spigot with valve" is still returning a "I can't see that (at gas spigot)". And third, while you've added the motorcycle to the room, it's still absent from the garage hints on the computer.

And two new bugs

-The description on the black car says the hood is raised and the engine and radiator are visible before you open it. The problem is, because you haven't actually opened it, even though they are described neither the engine or radiator is visible yet. You have to open the hood first, which some players might not realize since the description says it already is.

-Can't see the SUV hitch. I can still interact with it, but "x suv hitch" gives an "I can't see that." while "x hitch" returns a blank: no default or error message, just a return and nothing.

As for broadening your commands, the simplest thing to do is read your own descriptions of them being carried out. You TIE the rope to the hitch, you THROW the dumbbell at the fan, you STAB the tires with the blade, you CUT the spring with the wire cutters, you TURN ON the dryer... you get the idea. If you thought of it when writing a description of it happening, players will think of it when trying to do it.

Oh, and some weird language stuff:
-All these playthroughs and I just realized... "rubbage" isn't a word! It should be "rubbish".
-"radiator" and "cap" both work, but "radiator cap" doesn't.
-"red cars tires" works but "red car tires" doesn't. Likewise "silverware slots" works but "silverware slot" does not.
-the first cell recorder has "camera" as an alias, but the replacement one doesn't
-if you try to reach for the "small silver object" it doesn't see it, only "object" works. If you're going to describe it that way, the full text should work too.

That's all I got, and probably more than you need (or want). Hope it helps.

P.S.- I still don't understand the cipher you find in Art of War (I got the password from the game code). Wanna explain it to me, just for my own peace of mind? (You can PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.)

XanMag
Definitely not more than I need or want. The good news is, it appears the major stuff is fixed and just some tweaks are required. The other stuff you mentioned are easy fixes and will be completed tonight! Thanks again, and if you feel like it, you can play through again once I think it's complete. As if you haven't done enough already!

Also, I'm playing it through right now and making a list of commands and additional hints I can incorporate before publishing. Thanks!

XanMag
jdpjdpjdp,

I sent you a PM about the final puzzle. I would appreciate it if you let me know if you think it is too hard.

XanMag
Xanadu awaiting Thursday release. The link has been deleted but if you've downloaded it, feel free to throw me any suggestions before I publicize on Thursday night! Thanks all!

This topic is now closed. Topics are closed after 60 days of inactivity.

Support

Forums