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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:46 pm

I’m still alive. Busy times here with work and family illness…
I see poor Thani has some angst about his thread being derailed. Not really though… still along the same concepts of the “There is No God” rail. Anyway….
Because of my long absence, I won’t go back and respond to EVERYTHING but I do have a couple nuggets to add and clarify.
(human-selected evolution of numerous plants and animals: peas, dogs, wheat, grass, hay, cattle, sheep, turnips, carrots, potatoes, the list goes on)

what? I don’t even know what to begin to google to see what you’re talking about with human-selected evolution. Perhaps maybe “human-selected evolution”. LoL… I’ll google that later I suppose.
Paul, I am guessing you mean AiG (answers in Genesis) as opposed to EiG. There has been several speculations about the light being created by the stars.
So a creationist would rather have God:
lying, bending time - but not bending time (or contributing to more of the lying), moving earth/etc, setting up our solar system exactly but none of the others,

lying? No bending time? No Moving earth? What? Not setting up other than our solar system? I don’t believe that.
Rather then believe that:
God created all matter (big bang), gave it rules by which to build itself in a timely manner (physics / quantum mech), and so built everything over time, and applied everything on a universal level.

I don’t see why God would have created a Big Bang other than he spoke and BANG, it was. Hehe.. A creationist believes the accounts in the Bible for how the world was created rather than believe there was a big bang and long periods of time, etc. since it doesn’t say that in Genesis. Keep in mind, I’m not arguing the point; just telling you what creationists believe.

But surely you've put more thought behind it? Like "I am /also/ doing this because it helps the church out".

Yes. Giving 10% of your income as tithe to the church is a commandment. Giving above and beyond that is an offering to "help the church out".

Eye for eye is quote from the same bible that says to turn the other cheek, it's so full of contradictions, you can use it to back up anything you want.


When taken out of context, it does appear to be a contradiction. In one part of the Bible, it says it was morning and another part it says it was night. Goofy example but still, different times and different situations. If you want to continue the contradiction part of the discussion, I will be glad to read the sections of the Bible that you are referring to and let you know what was being talked about.

The "Mayan Calendar" has nothing to do with it other then a dating system.
It's like me saying "OH MY, THE WORLD WILL END DEC 31ST 2009!!" simply because I have a calendar which has "Dec29-Dec30-Dec31-END OF YEAR".

That was almost exactly what my response was going to be. I was going to use months instead of days saying that December is here, I guess it’s the end of time. :D

Redsun, I was almost sure you were going to quote the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy about the Super Computer Deep Thought who gave the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby paul_one » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:54 pm

OK, so this is the poem I got from my nan I think... After she died.

Desiderata
----------------

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:41 pm

That's nice but I don't think I would classify it as a poem. I don't know if I was reading it wrong but it doesn't appear to rhyme. :D
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:46 pm

(shhhhh, thats from his dead nan, so just go with it before he virtually kicks you in the nutz)
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Re: There is no God.

Postby paul_one » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:19 pm

Poem's don't need to rhyme silly :P .
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:30 am

My mum's doing a series on poems on what makes a poem a poem, as the rules are very different in different countries and styles, etc. The general rules used to be rhyming and scanning (rhythm). But modern poetry can take almost any form, much like modern art (messy bed and half a shark, anyone?).

I think by 'human-selected evolution' he means 'eugenics', selective breeding?

Like I said before on the big bang (I think), cause and effect means something outside the system has to start it all off and this is what I see god as (and that god is just a force, incapable of effecting day to day lives, but might have helped push evolution, etc the right way).

My mum gives 25% (I think it was) to her church each week. She says does done the maths for people who do and don't, and said that it works out better if you do. Although this is coming from a woman who if she stopped working the little hours she did, would earn the same (go benefits!)... Urgh, drains on society.

Giving money to the church hoping god will help you is no better than gambling.

With your day/night bible quote (where is that btw?), I remember something about god turning back time at one point.

Sometimes I say things to get a reaction, expressing opinions to get people talking. heh.

We have the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything.... but what is the question?!
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:03 pm

I hope god knows math, otherwise all them donations are going to "hell".
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:32 pm

elexxorine wrote:Giving money to the church hoping god will help you is no better than gambling.


I agree. I am hoping your comment is a general statement because I never said nor implied that I give money to the church hoping God will help me.

With your day/night bible quote (where is that btw?), I remember something about god turning back time at one point.

I was giving a generic example to make a point. I don't know if the Bible says anything like that. As far as turning back time, I don't think it happened in that manner; if I recall correctly, he "made the sun stand still" and lengthened the time of one day.

We have the ultimate answer to life, the universe and everything.... but what is the question?!

"WHAT DO YOU GET IF YOU MULTIPLY SIX BY NINE?"
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:22 pm

woah, i've been missing out while i was away.

these discussions typically don't typically end very well, but i guess I'll have to keep up on what's going on and bite a lil'

something I encounter in "God is dope or nope" discussions is the fallacy of inaction = non-existence. It doesn't make sense to say that if God (or anyone for that matter) doesn't perform an action, then they don't exist.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:03 pm

Gret to see you're back Lyte.

What is the point of something existing if it does nothing, it is the same as it not existing really as they have the same effect in the end.

six times nine= 42 in base 13!!! I know.... But you got to remember that the Golgafrinchans crashed on Earth and messed up the program so Arthur's question was wrong. We can only that the EArth as we know it is another attempt at the program and that no aliens crashed in prehistoric earth or anymore hyperspace bypasses need building...
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:21 pm

When people have the power to stop evil things and don't, it can be really frustrating, confusing, and hurtful. It is hard to understand how so much pain happens as a result of people standing by the wayside. Engaging in conversation, love, and relationships make things spiritually and socially relevant, while promoting violence, evil, and pain is the opposite.

So of course many of us can relate to thinking something should not exist because it does nothing, but this is not the same as something not existing because it does nothing. assigning a subjective value of "should not exist" does not change an entity's existence.

but more specifcally, i was talking about a singular action. i.e. if i decide not to clap my hands, it doesn't mean i don't exist. it is a fallacy to presume so.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:28 pm

if i decide not to clap my hands, it doesn't mean i don't exist. it is a fallacy to presume so.


...and suddenly lyte, deciding not to clap his hands, vanished in a puff of logic. :)
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:58 pm

dang. stupid logic.
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:48 pm

Logic isn't stupid it just is what it is. :)
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Thanatos » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:19 am

Edmund Burke wrote:All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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