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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:54 pm

steve the gaming guy wrote:
Redsun wrote:So I have some questions to everyone here.

1. do you pray? if so do you believe your prayers are answered?
2. do you go to church? at least sometimes?
3. do you believe in God exactly as it is written in the bible?
4. do you have faith?

Be honest and answer to the best of your ability :)


1. Yes. Prayers are always answered. It may not be the answer you're hoping for. Example. "Mommy, can I play a video game?" Mommy says "No." or "not right now". Those are still answers even though the answer isn't "yes".

2. Yes.

3. In a nutshell, yes. We know about God partly because of what it is written in the Bible.

4. Yes, in many things. God being one of them. Jesus another. Perhaps your question is do we have religious faith?
Then your a good person regardless of what you believe in, my point is that no matter what you believe
in you can still be a good person, even if you don't believe in God at all.
It does not take the belief in God or "Gods" to make someone a saintly person.


Who said you weren't a "good" person? What defines a person as "good"? There are people who believe in Heaven yet aren't Christians who believe they will get there because they were good. But again, what is good? You didn't kill anyone? You never stole anything? You never lied? Or you only lied a little bit? The presumption goes on and on...


What defines a person as good is the person who is doing the defining, in other words we all have opinions, so according to ME lyteside is a good person.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:39 am

Are me, tron or thana good people though? We all answered various degrees of 'no'...

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:43 am

aw, thanks Redsun!

As for Elexx, she's totally evil! I know!

j/k

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:47 am

Seriously, if the yesness of our anwsers was the traditional sense of good, then how good are we? In real life we are all nice people, but are we 'good' and in what sense. Truely what should the list of questions be for good, not just regiliously?

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:01 am

i don't know, sis...

I think it might be difficult to define anything objectively good (having the properties of conceptual reality) without borrowing from the worldview that states something like "things outside and above this physical universe exist". One might make a motion for "good" being what is accepted in society, or a majority of thought. The problem is what happens when the society thinks "good" is not what society makes it. Does that means its suddenly not true? *KABOOM* law of non-contradiction kicks in.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:49 pm

My point for bringing up the good thing was because of the many people that do believe in Heaven but don't really know how to get there. In the religion that I was raised by, we learn from the Bible that we accept Jesus to save us, thus becoming a Christian, and that is the only way into Heaven regardless of the actual denomination you belong to. Christian Baptist, Christian Catholic, Christian Presbyterian, etc...
My point also, and I'll add more here in response, that those who live a saintly life still are not perfect. They have had various degrees of faults at some point in their life. They told a lie as a child or stole a piece of candy or were disrespectful to their parents.. or something. So if you compare two saintly people, who decides they are saintly? Who decides who is more saintly?
So the bottom line is you do not go to Heaven by good works "lest any man should boast". God put that in the Bible because he did not want people to say "look how good I am that I get to go to Heaven".

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Elexxorine » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:16 pm

Shoot them all and let god decide.

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:26 pm

steve the gaming guy wrote:My point for bringing up the good thing was because of the many people that do believe in Heaven but don't really know how to get there. In the religion that I was raised by, we learn from the Bible that we accept Jesus to save us, thus becoming a Christian, and that is the only way into Heaven regardless of the actual denomination you belong to. Christian Baptist, Christian Catholic, Christian Presbyterian, etc...
My point also, and I'll add more here in response, that those who live a saintly life still are not perfect. They have had various degrees of faults at some point in their life. They told a lie as a child or stole a piece of candy or were disrespectful to their parents.. or something. So if you compare two saintly people, who decides they are saintly? Who decides who is more saintly?
So the bottom line is you do not go to Heaven by good works "lest any man should boast". God put that in the Bible because he did not want people to say "look how good I am that I get to go to Heaven".


I see where this is going :)

That is only "1" way to believe in, and I'll respect that.
My Belief is we all go to the same place, You can't punish the soul for what the body did.
I didn't get that belief from the bible or any book, I got it from my own brain for what seems like It'll make since and is Logical.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:59 pm

hmmm. Does that mean you believe the body to be independent from the soul? Does it act involuntarily against the soul's wishes? Are there evil things that the soul can do which are punishable? If I took over someone's thoughts and influenced them to commit a murder, who do you think might be responsible?

Seems to me the logical connection might be the reverse... Why would we punish the body for what the soul is doing. For instance, if I shoot someone in the head, we don't put the gun on trial, we put me, the shooter on trial. The gun is just the weapon of choice. Likewise, the body carries out the actions and desires of my heart and soul. In fact, the soul damages its surroundings, and it becomes demented and unusable. Dog's are beaten into wild, savage beasts. Words are misused and become labeled as "cuss words". Guns are used to kill people and become outlawed. Man, I sure think our souls have a lot to own up to. Maybe you can help clarify your position, Redsun, because I just can't seem to reconcile it.

On another curious note, would you want to have a relationship with a wife that hated your guts, but did nice things for you all the time, or be with a wife who truly loved you but unknowingly did an enormous amount of things that hurt you emotionally and spiritually? I'm expecting different answers on this one!
( comparison of soul - body )

This is starting to get interesting. Let's keep the conversation flowing!

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:51 am

My belief is: The body is a mere object that makes us physical, The body thinks and acts, not
our soul. I believe the two are separate things not the same, Our soul returns to It's owner
upon death, It's owner is God.

If say for example my Wife Loved me she wouldn't hurt me in any way, otherwise she doesn't love me.
Though there is mistakes and forgiveness, after all we are only human and not perfect.

If you say a bad person goes to hell, I'd have to disagree, Hell is what you make it, Just like
Heaven is what you make it, One man's heaven is another mans hell and visa versa.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:11 am

Redsun wrote:My belief is: The body is a mere object that makes us physical, The body thinks and acts, not
our soul. I believe the two are separate things not the same, Our soul returns to It's owner
upon death, It's owner is God.


I see, so the "soul" you're talking about is not accountable to this life, because we aren't our soul right now? As in, the soul is something we don't come into contact with until later?

Redsun wrote:If say for example my Wife Loved me she wouldn't hurt me in any way, otherwise she doesn't love me.
Though there is mistakes and forgiveness, after all we are only human and not perfect.


It sounds like your saying that a person can't love you if they hurt you a lot, but they can if they hurt a small amount, because they make mistakes. is that it?

Redsun wrote:ad person goes to hell, I'd have to disagree, Hell is what you make it, Just like
Heaven is what you make it, One man's heaven is another mans hell and visa versa.


Are you saying that if you believe that hell exists in a certain way, then for you it will be that way? But not for another person?

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:11 am


I see, so the "soul" you're talking about is not accountable to this life, because we aren't our soul right now? As in, the soul is something we don't come into contact with until later?


You could put It that way yes.

It sounds like your saying that a person can't love you if they hurt you a lot, but they can if they hurt a small amount, because they make mistakes. is that it?

Not exactly, I'm saying if a person hurts you allot then there is more chance that they hurt you on purpose, or Love you in a way
that they "think" is the correct way to love you, or is there way of loving someone but if it hurts someone so much then the person that
is being hurt needs to end the relationship or choose to forgive.

Are you saying that if you believe that hell exists in a certain way, then for you it will be that way? But not for another person?



Yes,close, I'm saying that That's what the person "thinks" hell and heaven will be like, because That's how
it is to them on Earth, Example: Some countries Don't allow women to even reveal there faces, for if they do
they get Executed, to that country It's normal or may even be good.
To other countries It may seem evil or bad.

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:44 am

gotcha!

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts for me.

Certainly, we are talking about different things. I'm speaking more to conceptual realities of "hell" while it seems maybe your talking about an interpretation of hell, i.e. the woman that see veiling themselves as good, someone else seeing it as evil.

So my thoughts are more to the reality before its interpretation; in your example, it would look like the veiling of women is happening or not happening. Though both countries think differently about the veiling, neither would disagree that it is happening.

LIke a measurement. I am 5'10". To some that seems small. To others that seems tall. But to all parties, I am always 5'10" (even if you use different measurements) it would equal to 5'10"

So, do you guys think that hell can be "measured", despite a person's experience of that "measurement"?

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:46 am

I Don't think hell can be measured, It's either Hell or not.

To me I Know that as you say "It is happening" nobody disagrees with that, and That's my point precisely, thus that is in fact true
and is indeed reality.

Some people don't even like meat, It's evil to them, very bad and cruel to eat another animal, but It's ok for
them to kill other living things like plants etc to eat, so to one person something is acceptable or tolerable but
to others It is not, This is where the factor of hell/bad/evil/cruel comes into play.

Ghost: I Happen to believe in Ghost, some may think I'm weird or even evil, others however may also
believe in Ghost as I do.

Witches: Many women were burned alive because people really thought they were witches, and witches to them
were Evil, yet they themselves Killed another human been.

Even Death row, People cheering because of a murderer being electrocuted, To some the people cheering
are actually evil or bad or cruel, to others they are doing Gods will. to me I Don't believe in the death penalty, but
do I think the people cheering are evil?, not really I Think they simply believe differently then me.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:34 pm

yeah, it does indeed seem we are talking about different things. whether or not someone will enjoy or not enjoy hell is yet to be discovered. the question still remains of does it exist or not. And if it exists in a certain way, than no matter what the subjective experience, it could still be quantified. I don't mean quantified in the limited sense of science (especially if it only exists conceptually, and not literally) but it can still be quantified nevertheless.

Going back to your stance on souls, would I be correct in making the analogy that you think our souls are kind of like an inheritance that we "come into" when we die? Do love and memories in this life last forever after passing on? Cause I'm getting the impression you think the body, mind, and spirit dies, and then we are a brand new thing that must learn all over again. is that it?


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