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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:13 pm

ok give me a few minutes to write my full believe then I'll ask for yours, this way we better understand each other(now if only world leaders can do that)...LOL

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:15 pm

Redsun wrote:You don't need scriptures, statues, writing, books, building etc to say that God does or does not change hearts.


well that is something i can agree with to a certain extent. again, i think i thought you said you were going to prove to me in the bible where God does not change hearts. so now i think we can wrap this one up.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:32 pm

My Belief: First off I Believe in God, I'm still mixed on Satan(Done my research) but still not decided, but I do believe in Demons.
I Believe after death we all go to the same place regardless of who we were in life.

I Believe nature is God because It's what we breath, feel and experience.
Also Nature has no color or sex and is not physical and Nature is still creating and destroying
as we speak and not just on earth.
These are facts not fiction or assumption.

The base of your believe needs to be on solid ground otherwise your entire
way of life can be made up.

I Also find it Interesting that in the 10 Commandments God appeared as a Tree NOT a human or anything else.

I Believe Jesus existed but was a great leader, maybe a good or bad leader who knows.
I Believe we are all children of God not just Jesus.

I Believe men created religions to manipulate and to control our own way of life.
Most see something higher then nature and this is why nature is being Ignored
and the earth is being destroyed by us, wars ravage the earth, we are cannibalizing ourselves because of
our own created religions, men got to be control freaks this is why there was slavery and women having
less rights(times are changing) new religions come to be, Sciencetology anyone? to prove how religions formed.

Arabs and Israelis hate each other, started way back long time ago all because of there differences.
If Humans wanted to we have the power of changing mans destiny for the next thousands of years, not only
God but MEN have this ability.

I could go on, this is just a brief description.

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lyteside
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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:38 pm

Thanks for a more detailed description of your thoughts on God and nature. Very interesting stuff.

These parts I was confused on:

Redsun wrote:I Also find it Interesting that in the 10 Commandments God appeared as a Tree NOT a human or anything else.


did you mean the old testament by saying "10 commandments"?

Redsun wrote:I Believe we are all children of God not just Jesus.


Do you believe that Christians would disagree with that statement? And would I be correct to conclude that you believe we share God's fiber and nature because we are his "children"? In turn, is God relational because we are relational according to your belief?

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steve the gaming guy
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:45 pm

I was going to inquire about that as well. To clear things up, in the 10 commandments, God didn't appear at all; they were just commandments. In the old testament, God appeared to Moses as a burning bush. When he appeared to Moses in the mountains to give him the 10 commandments, I don't think we are told how he appeared. There are parts of the Bible that talk about the power of God is so great that our human eyes cannot look upon Him. And we won't be able to until we are in Heaven. I would say that is the purpose of appearing as a burning bush.
I have more to respond to but I wanted to throw this quick response in. :D

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:50 pm

I'm referring to the movie, the old movie with Heston as moses.
I wont talk about what I don't know, never read the entire bible of any version.

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:53 pm

gotcha. Yeah, so you're point is just to illustrate that people show God in stories as being apart of nature, right?

you know what's cool?

in scripture it says God appears in the very fire that is burning the bush, yet the bush is not being consumed. How appropriate that he should be equated with living, breathing fire! A fire that is dangerous and able to destroy, yet does not. Isn't that nifty?

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:56 pm

lyteside wrote:Thanks for a more detailed description of your thoughts on God and nature. Very interesting stuff.

These parts I was confused on:

Redsun wrote:I Also find it Interesting that in the 10 Commandments God appeared as a Tree NOT a human or anything else.


did you mean the old testament by saying "10 commandments"?

Redsun wrote:I Believe we are all children of God not just Jesus.


Do you believe that Christians would disagree with that statement? And would I be correct to conclude that you believe we share God's fiber and nature because we are his "children"? In turn, is God relational because we are relational according to your belief?


I Believe that We are gods children because of Life, Nature started life there for Nature is our, should I say "Parent and/or Creator"

How appropriate that he should be equated with living, breathing fire! A fire that is dangerous and able to destroy, yet does not. Isn't that nifty?


Like the flood that was caused by a rain storm that lasted 40 days and 40 nights? that flooded the entire earth?

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steve the gaming guy
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:58 pm

Redsun wrote:no Idea why so many think we all sinned and need to repent etc.

I can answer that. Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.” And Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life.” So that answers why so many think we all have sinned (rom 3:23) and need to repent (rom 6:23)

Redsun wrote:Fact1: Men wrote the bibles not God
Fact2: Men re-translated the bibles not god
Fact3: Nature only intervenes in life when it's a matter of death and life nothing else(therefor we make our own choices)
Fact4: The human brain is very good at making It's own decision without the help of a god(It's called Will)
Fact5: no book should have to tell us what we should already know, this goes for the animal kingdom to(Nature imprints this already in our minds)
Fact6: Churches are built by men not God

People need to realize that you can Love nature just as good as you love your god.


I will respond to your facts in the same manner you have listed yours.

Fact1: Men wrote the Bible through inspiration of God. II Timothy 3:16 “all scripture is written through the inspiration of God..”
Fact2: I don’t have a problem with men translating the Bible. Does re-translating have a different meaning for you in this case?
Fact3: Can you explain how nature only intervenes when it’s a matter of death and life?
Fact4: God made our intricately designed brains so we can think logically. God gave us the gift of free will.
Fact5: I don’t fully understand your point here. Are you saying that you already know everything you could possibly learn from any book?
Fact6: Men did build the church buildings for anyone who wishes to gather and praise God.

I love God as a supernatural entity; I cannot love nature in that way. Nature to me means rain, plant life, condensation, animals, etc… That's just me.

Now… if I say I believe the Bible is true; that does not make it true. But if it is true, then why shouldn’t I try to learn more from it?


Oh, I love the flood talks... I addressed it here and there earlier in this thread I think but I don't mind talking about it more. I will click Submit for now though. What questions do you have about the flood?

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Re: There is no God.

Postby lyteside » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:01 pm

Redsun wrote:
Like the flood that was caused by a rain storm that lasted 40 days and 40 nights? that flooded the entire earth?


You know, that would have been interesting symbolism, but no, God was not the flood. Just caused it.

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:10 pm

In reply to your facts1 through 6

It's not the Inspiration of God It's hoping God is on our side.
Re-translating is men re-writing and changing the text from the originals because of new facts they discovered
Natures Intervenes when It's time to live or die nothing more, nothing less
God gave us the gift of free will is exactly my point, Men change hearts not God.
No, our brains can never learn everything, we can read it but doesn't make it fact.
Don't need a building to praise god or pray, do it where you are.

Nature to you is: plant life, animals, condensation, rain etc, and nothing more?, It doesn't mean Life to you?, what would your god say about that? :)

Flood talk: It's Impossible for the world to be flooded in 40 days and 40 nights by rain, The Flood was only a portion of the earth a very
small portion caused by a river breaking that swamped a town.

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steve the gaming guy
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:18 pm

Redsun wrote:In reply to your facts1 through 6

It's not the Inspiration of God It's hoping God is on our side.
Re-translating is men re-writing and changing the text from the originals because of new facts they discovered
Natures Intervenes when It's time to live or die nothing more, nothing less
God gave us the gift of free will is exactly my point, Men change hearts not God.
No, our brains can never learn everything, we can read it but doesn't make it fact.
Don't need a building to praise god or pray, do it where you are.

Nature to you is: plant life, animals, condensation, rain etc, and nothing more?, It doesn't mean Life to you?, what would your god say about that? :)

Flood talk: It's Impossible for the world to be flooded in 40 days and 40 nights by rain, The Flood was only a portion of the other a very
small portion caused by a river breaking that swamped a town.


"Re-translating because of new facts." I don't know of an example where this happened.

The line about "Nature to you is", you added "and nothing more" after I had put etc. where "etc" means there is more. Sure, nature contains life and death as well. What would my God say about it? I just don't understand how nature "intervenes" at life and death. What does that mean?

Flood:
The Bible does talk about it raining for 40 days and 40 nights. It also talks about the waters springing up from the depths. Many believe that is referring to water under land in caverns erupting up attributing to the earth flooding. There are also many who believe that yes, all land probably began as one continent but was separated during the flood. I know I mentioned this near the beginning of this thread because I remember Paul making a comment about it. I'll have to look in the Bible again but I'm thinking the earth remained covered with water for almost a year before it began to subside. If the flood was merely a local flood and it took Noah 100 years to build the ark, why couldn't he have taken that time to move to another place? What was the point of the ark?

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:21 pm

If it rained for 40 days and 40 nights in an attempt to flood the earth, why must water need to come up from the soil?

When It's your time to live: birth, Nature comes into play to make you be, when It's time to die nature takes you as well.

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Redsun
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Re: There is no God.

Postby Redsun » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:23 pm

Compare a old bible to a 2000 bible, read it and see.

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steve the gaming guy
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Re: There is no God.

Postby steve the gaming guy » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:28 pm

Redsun wrote:If it rained for 40 days and 40 nights in an attempt to flood the earth, why must water need to come up from the soil?

When It's your time to live: birth, Nature comes into play to make you be, when It's time to die nature takes you as well.


In my opinion, it just seems that water coming from above and below makes sense.

If that is your belief of nature, I can confidently say I love God because of more reasons than that.

Oh I did want to ask you about one of your other responses. Who do you believe Jesus was other than a leader? Where did he come from? Do you believe he was God's son and was born of a virgin woman and was sinless and later died voluntarily for our sins?

Oh I understand your last post about comparing new Bibles and Old Bibles but that doesn't answer the question. You are making a claim and telling me to disprove it by researching this where you supposedly already know. I'm just looking for an example that you might already know about.


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