Since Quest Games can't he expected towin IFComp, why not a QuestComp, like the HugoComp? Everyone could be a winner!

Everybody, who works with Quest, is a winner

Why can't Quest games win?

If I'm ever feeling discouraged in a competition, I just sing the Pokemon theme song (the first one). Maybe you should try that.

Yep, Quest has porential to win, but nobody is serious about entering Quest games into a Comp. Either we:

1 ) Enter a Qgame that's actually good
2) Make a Comp for us that gives us a feeling of victory.

I don't see any reason NOT to have our own comp, aside from the time it would take to arrange and judge it.
However...
When is the next IFcomp?

Have you seen the post for SpringThing 2013? You have to submit your intent to enter by the end of the month, I believe. I'd enjoy the competition.

Sounds cool, although I'll be interested to find out more about the definition of Interactive Fiction. Sounds to me like that could be just about any video game with half a plot. I'm a perfectionist in many ways, so I certainly couldn't make a "serious" entry in a month, but I will definitely look forward to saving a game for a future comp. I have one in mind actually...

QuestComp sounds like a really good idea, actually. I'd be down for helping out with that.

@Triangle: I wikipedia'd IF when I was considering entering the competition, and it's anything in which the primary medium is text, (you can't do a side-scroller, don't get crazy with embedded videos or pictures, and so on) so what I took from it was, strictly text adventures.

@sgreig: If it comes down to a matter of enough people supporting a QuestComp, I'm in favor of it. Are we going to employ a special rule like IFComp's "under two hours?" Or would the gimmick be Quest-only games?

Well, there could certainly be special rules for themes or amount of time allotted, etc. But I think the hard and fast rule would be that games have to be written in Quest, hence the name QuestComp.

I guess Alex has the last say...

I think Alex would be quite supportive of the idea actually, as he would really like Quest to become more popular.

Obviously the comp would start out fairly small, but if we keep entering larger comps with entries written in Quest to help get the word out there, and maybe advertise QuestComp on intfiction and maybe on RAIF that could help spread the word as well.

What we need to determine are a few things:

[list]
[*]Will there be themes, or can people make anything they want?[/*:m]
[*]What is the time frame for the competition?[/*:m]
[*]How do we determine who the judges will be?[/*:m]
[*]Are we going to offer prizes, and if so how do we handle that?[/*:m][/list:u]

Those are just a few off the top of my head based on my experience with other comps.

sgreig wrote:I think Alex would be quite supportive of the idea actually, as he would really like Quest to become more popular.

Obviously the comp would start out fairly small, but if we keep entering larger comps with entries written in Quest to help get the word out there, and maybe advertise QuestComp on intfiction and maybe on RAIF that could help spread the word as well.

What we need to determine are a few things:

[list]
[*]Will there be themes, or can people make anything they want?[/*:m]
[*]What is the time frame for the competition?[/*:m]
[*]How do we determine who the judges will be?[/*:m]
[*]Are we going to offer prizes, and if so how do we handle that?[/*:m][/list:u]

Those are just a few off the top of my head based on my experience with other comps.

These are what I would do, but not all would agree with me:

1. Perhaps there could be themes, but I would like to see the first year having no themes.
2. Maybe just before IFComp?
3. Like IFComp, maybe.
4. No prizes for the timebeing would be fine.

I haven't been looking at these things for too long, but I think a theme would be a neat aspect to characterize our competition besides the necessity of Quest. It also helps to ensure that everyone has around the same amount of time to work on a game for that particular competition. Although, I'm also inclined to agree with sonic102 that it's something that could wait for later years as everyone eases into the administrative roles that exist before imposing additional rules about meeting theme criteria.

Timing is certainly important, and the main cause for concern is avoiding forcing people to choose between QuestComp and any other competition. With that in mind, I think winter or summer are probably the best times for entry submission deadlines, with IFComp in the fall. If we time it right, anyone who wants to compete in more than one competition should be able to start work on their entry for another comp in time to complete it, without having to work on two at once.

IFComp rules for judges probably works, yeah.

Publicity is a fine prize, you could have the winner's entry be displayed on the front page of the textadventures website while.
There's my two cents. I'd be very interested to see this start to take form in time for there to be a QuestComp 2013!

Agreed.

I think the comp should have something that sets it apart from the other IF comps out there though. Otherwise it might just fall to the wayside. IFComp and Spring Thing are sort of the standard make-what-you-want comps. Then you have IntroComp which challenges you to just submit the beginning of a game you're working. And then there are speedIF comps to try to make a game as fast as possible.

I think QuestComp might need some kind of additional angle to entice people outside of this community to participate. But the IF community at large tends to be very jaded towards "more of the same" when it come to these things, so maybe adding themes to the comp, either now or in the future could provide that angle to make it more of a challenge? I know Ludum Dare employs this rather successfully, although the theme voting process is a little ridiculous.

Hmmm, I don't really know what diffrent uniqueness we could give....

An idea I've been mulling over, since Quest is a constantly evolving creature, is one that encourages authors to utilize a new feature of Quest.

For example, right now we could ask that players utilize the new Point of View switching, or the map feature, or even an interesting mechanic using the light/darkness feature. One could go so far as to challenge players to build a game around a picture, or a folder of pictures, giving them context and significance within the game, since those are built-in functions that Quest has.
Since our idea revolves around Quest-only submissions, I think pointing to certain useful functions could not only emphasize the strengths of Quest (and help its popularity) but also give this competition something unique that can't be found anywhere else.

Sounds great! Really like the idea of having a theme around using a particular Quest feature.

Alex wrote:Sounds great! Really like the idea of having a theme around using a particular Quest feature.

I second that. The idea of basing the games around new features also encourages people to learn how to use the new features.

Perhaps the new text processor would be a nice feature, which opens a wide range of possibilities. I think I have some nice ideas what will be possible with it

Yeah, I think having certain feature that I need to incorporate could help stimulate the creative process for me, and help me think of larger ideas for game concepts.

So as far as putting together a QuestComp goes, if everyone likes the idea of a competition where all the entries are Quest files with a certain feature utilized, where do we go from here?

Back to sgreig's list, I'd say.

sgreig wrote:What we need to determine are a few things:

[list]
[*]Will there be themes, or can people make anything they want?[/*:m]
[*]What is the time frame for the competition?[/*:m]
[*]How do we determine who the judges will be?[/*:m]
[*]Are we going to offer prizes, and if so how do we handle that?[/*:m][/list:u]

Those are just a few off the top of my head based on my experience with other comps.

1. Use features that showcase Quest as themes, check
2. What's the time frame, and how often should they be.
I believe I saw something about trying to space them between other large IFcomps...
3. Similar to existing IFcomp was suggested, that seems fine to me
4. I don't think we really discussed prizes yet, which relates to the question of entrance fees, also.
My vote would be to make the prizes more esoteric and make entry free, since it's a smaller scale of competition.

I'd say we also need someone to officially be in charge of finalizing all those details, and setting up the actual Qomp.
If you want to be real democratic about it, some this stuff could be put in actual voting threads.

Alex wrote:Sounds great! Really like the idea of having a theme around using a particular Quest feature.

I third that. Right now we could use the map, since it's a Quest-only feature. (Automapping built-in, that is.)

>THINK

What about having no prizes for the time being, because it just has started?

>QUIT

At the bare minimum I think the comp shouldn't take place until after Spring Thing. It's deadline for submissions is April 2. I can't remember off the top of my head when IntroComp is, but a quick google search would turn that info up easily. IFComp happens in the fall.

Based on some quick googling it would appear that IntroComp takes place in or around August. So I would posit perhaps around May for the comp? Deadline for intent to enter would be by April 30 or May 1, and the deadline to submit the game would be May 31? I think 1 month is a decent amount of time. Size and complexity of the game would be entirely up to the author, but obviously it would be better to submit a finished game rather than an unfinished one, so planning accordingly would be a good idea.

I think everyone is in agreement that the appointment of judges should be handled in a similar manner to IFComp, so I say we just go with that.

As for prizes, I know Spring Thing takes donations from people that are distributed to the winners as prizes. So I would say if anyone wants to donate prizes they're more than welcome, but I wouldn't expect anything to spectacular until the comp gains some recognition.

For submissions, I think the easiest way to handle it would be to create a new category on the textadventures.co.uk website for entries, such as QuestComp 2013. People with moderator access to the web player site can entries made by registered entrants get added to the category. Alternatively, maybe Alex could set up a separate QuestComp website just for comp entries. Or if someone else has access to a windows hosting server and would be willing to donate hosting space for the comp and web player, that's also an option.

I would recomment waiting for the release of Q5.4 (perhaps beta), so that it would possible to use the new features.
And prizes... perhaps the winner may choose a new feature (a small one!) which will be implemented by Alex for the next version?

This sounds like a good idea to me. My two penneth...

Themes: I say yes to themes. It can help to inspire writers (and would also help prevent someone releasing a game for the competition that they have been working on for years, helping to level the playing field).

Showcase a Quest feature: Depending on the feature, this could put me off. For example, I am not good at drawing, so a requirement for images would stop me entering, or similarly a feature that I do not like. However, in principle it is a good idea. How about a list of features, and the game must incorprate at least one of the three, or two of five, or whatever?

Timing: Keep the closing dates well away from SpringThing and IFcomp, but allow at least three months (preferably more!).

Time limit: The IFcomp time limit is a good idea as it makes judging quicker, but make it flexible. Games can be as long or as short as you like, but judges are only obliged to play for two hours.

Fees and prizes: Make it free to enter; if no one donates a prize, you are writing for the honour of winning.

Beta-testing: It cannot be checked, but make beta-testing a requirement in the rules. It will help encourage a better quality of games. Given the size of the community, you can still submit an entry and/or judge even if you beta-test another entry.

Hosting: Games should be hosted at textadventurers.co.uk, as normal, but perhaps a web page could be added to the site listing those games that are in the competition, with instructions on how to vote.

Version 5.4: Is this out soon? If so, then sure, wait for it. Otherwise, no. Having a competition based on a beta version seems like a bad idea to me.

ETA:

Judging: Might be an idea to have games tested against a set of criteria (story, writing style, implementation complexity, humour, non-bugginess, following the theme, cool-factor, etc.). It could make judging easier and allow authors to see their strengths and weaknesses.

++(what.thepixie.said)

One prize I think would be cool, and free to provide, is a custom title on the forums. It could be as simple as
"QuestComp Winner 2013"

I'm also in agreement with The Pixie. I hadn't thought about it from the perspective that requiring people to use a specific feature might be a deterrent for some people. The suggestions of picking from a list while still incorporating a theme seems like a good one to me.

TriangleGames' suggestion of getting a custom forum title seems good to me as well.

Pertex wrote:I would recomment waiting for the release of Q5.4 (perhaps beta), so that it would possible to use the new features.
And prizes... perhaps the winner may choose a new feature (a small one!) which will be implemented by Alex for the next version?

Oh yes, just what I had in mind.

ThePixie: Your two penneth just became a million dollars for us.

I really like the idea of being able to choose what features you'd have to implement as well. I suggested the use of images, but I hadn't even considered my own lack of artistic ability.
I will say, I'm always a bit deterred by the "only two hours" rule, since it can be so difficult to judge how long it will really take someone to solve a puzzle. But, it's been working for IFComp for a long, and as you said, as long as it doesn't necessarily have to be complete-able in two hours, I don't see it being a big deal. And we certainly don't want to discourage people from judging our infant competition.
And as far as prizes go, I think honor, glory, and recognition are wonderful prizes as well.
I think... this is going to be good.

Now could we talk about when to launch QC13? Because we got lots of support.

sonic102 wrote:Now could we talk about when to launch QC13? Because we got lots of support.

Well, I suggested May, and Pertex suggested waiting until Q5.4 comes out, although I have no idea when that will be.

I think, it's not a problem of the launch date. You can start now if you want. The question is when the judgement will start.

I am not sure about the goal of the contest. Should it be something special you can do with Quest? An extraordinary theme? An extraordinary idea? Or just a tec demo like jays breakout clone? Just a normal IF would be boring in my eyes.

From what's been discussed about the theme so far, we should have a concise list posted of the three or four most recent/interesting features that have been added, so everyone is selecting from that same list to "showcase" them. I don't even know what all the things are that have been added since 5.0 came out. I just started on 5.3.

The Pixie seems to have suggested that we employ both a Quest-feature based theme alongside a traditional "theme" for the games submitted. Perhaps that could help spice the comp up a little more? Personally, I think a competition that limits entrants to using Quest is fairly unique to the whole community as it is, but I sincerely doubt that adding an extra element would detract from it at all (I might, however, question whether or not it makes things harder for the judges).
Assuming that we are employing traditional themes for the games, what exactly would we be talking about here? Themes like "deserted island," or "haunted house," or "year 3013 A.D." Or maybe something less setting-based like "fixing mistakes," or "conquering inner demons," or "a difficult journey."
Following the above assumption, there would need to be a way to choose a theme, although the easiest and most fair way to go about that would probably be a random drawing, or something of the sort.

Concerning the date judging begins, it would probably be wise to try and get a fairly good handle on exactly who is going to get everything done. Who can make arrangements to have the competition entries properly sorted from the rest of the website, who can make sure that web pages are equipped for judging, who is going to keep track of who is entering the competition, who is going to keep track of who is and isn't following the rules?
If we get that out of the way first, finding a date to kick things off should be much easier.

I would suggest a theme that is kind of abstract that can be used in any genre. I used to create mods for a computer game called Thief, and entered a competition with the theme "Water", for example. I also got the idea of breaking up the scores from there too.

Yeah, the point of a theme is usually to give a vague word or phrase and then let the people create based on their interpretations of that theme. Part of the fun is seeing how widely different people's interpretations of a theme can be.

My suggestion of May is based around common competition rules. So, under my suggestions the competition would officially start May 1 and games would have to be submitted by May 31. Then the judging would be done, which would be for say, 2 weeks (or 3 or 4 depending on the time restrictions the judges have). So the theme and requirements would need to be determined before then.

As for organisation, I can definitely help out with that. I tend to have a decent amount of free time in between the things I'm working on. If we could figure out who among us has the time and inclination to help out with the organization we can figure out what roles people would like to take. Also if anyone is interested in being judges we could start making a list for that too.

I think you need to allow a good three months to create a decent game.

Depending on what sgreig means by "start" we can have three months for creation at the end of May as long as we finish up this month. I could probably help with organization one way or another, nobody needs to handle money or anything so as far as I can tell I could fall into any role I needed to, really. I taught myself HTML about seven years ago and never looked at since, so I don't know about setting up pages for judging or anything, but I can set up email accounts and keep lists of names like nobody's business.

Well, I mean the intent to enter deadline would be the beginning of may, and the games would have to be submitted by the end of the month, so officially you have one month, but I guess if you're working on it before that it's not against the rules. But if we're going to use themes, those ususally aren't announced until the competition officially starts.

I think it's perfectly possible to make a decent game in a month though, especially since they're not really meant to be super long epics like Photopia. If we're borrowing IFComp rules, then judges should be able to complete the game in <= 2 hours. But I guess it also depends on how much time you're planning on setting aside to work on the game too.

Okay, this is just my opinion but... You cannot start the game until you know the theme, and when I entered IFcomp I dedicated a month to beta-testing. I do think you will get a better quality of game if you allow longer. If you want to do notification of intent a month before the dealine, that is fine - though IFcomp does not bother with that at all. In fact for IFcomp you could be working on an entry already, and some people probably are.

Okay, so... It doesn't sound like anyone is vehemently opposed to giving people as much time as possible, right? I mean, sure, someone might decide that they want to do the contest at some point after this discussion between about five people and have less time than someone who is keeping up with the discussion now, but in general if we want our entries to be of high quality (and not make Quest look like poor software) we should allow entrants as much time as possible.
So unless someone wants to explicitly disagree with this, I think our best next course of action would be to decide on a theme for this year and begin publicizing the event as soon as possible. I posted some ideas for themes, but it seemed like the idea would be to apply more general themes, to the point of short phrases or single words. So let's seriously discuss theme ideas (unless you think kicking this off so early is a bad idea, then say that).

I liked "haunted house," as I am partial to horror stories, but I'd say just "haunting" as there are more ways to interpret that as a theme. My other thought was "hunger."
I would also side with anything not recently used in other comps.

I would like to see a well-developed setting, but that's just my thoughts.

Lists! Lists are good. Let's make some.

[list]
Feature-related themes:
[*]Using the auto-mapping in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using the POV switching in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using Light/Darkness in an "interesting" way[/*]
These are based off of features that aren't new, but are features of quest nonetheless:
[*]Taking a given photo or set of photos and using them in your game[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of links within the game's text[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of panes (I would say of any of the visual customization that Quest allows, but much of that is half-implemented[/*]
[/list:u]

[list]
Game themes:
[*]Haunted[/*]
[*]Hunger[/*]
[*]Futuristic[/*]
[*]Alone[/*]
[*]Repentance[/*]
[*]Journey[/*]
[*]Plague[/*]
[*]Revenge[/*]
[*]Steam[/*]
[*]Dreams[/*]
[*]Limitation[/*]
[/list:u]

Please, please, please, add to these lists. Whenever we're satisfied with the length, we can decide whether we want to somehow choose a theme or we can pick our favorite random number generator and use that.
While we're deliberating on themes I would think it's also possible to argue about assigning roles in organization and dates/deadlines. If we move fast, our Quest to get this started won't be in vain (see what I did there?).

homeeman wrote:Lists! Lists are good. Let's make some.

[list]
Feature-related themes:
[*]Using the auto-mapping in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using the POV switching in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using Light/Darkness in an "interesting" way[/*]
These are based off of features that aren't new, but are features of quest nonetheless:
[*]Taking a given photo or set of photos and using them in your game[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of links within the game's text[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of panes (I would say of any of the visual customization that Quest allows, but much of that is half-implemented[/*]
[/list:u]

Don't forget HTML-editing! Perhaps we can even make competitors enhance http://play.textadventures.co.uk/v5/Play.aspx?file=twohalves/twohalves.quest?

In the interest of keeping this idea alive while it's still possible within a reasonable time, let's say we pick a theme on March 1st? Any objections? Has anything come up for anyone that would give cause to reschedule or reconsider?

No objections till now. But March is like, three days away.

sonic102 wrote:

"homeeman"

Lists! Lists are good. Let's make some.

[list]
Feature-related themes:
[*]Using the auto-mapping in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using the POV switching in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using Light/Darkness in an "interesting" way[/*]
These are based off of features that aren't new, but are features of quest nonetheless:
[*]Taking a given photo or set of photos and using them in your game[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of links within the game's text[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of panes (I would say of any of the visual customization that Quest allows, but much of that is half-implemented[/*]
[/list:u]

Don't forget HTML-editing! Perhaps we can even make competitors enhance http://play.textadventures.co.uk/v5/Play.aspx?file=twohalves/twohalves.quest?

Couple of comments:
HTML-editing is kind of the same as panes.
Light and dark are new to Quest, but have been a part of text adventures from the very beginning. Good to see it in Quest finally, but not good for a "feature-related theme" in my opinion. I think we should look at features that are special to Quest, whether new or not.

Would it be a good idea (to encourage writers) to make the source code available after the competition has ended so people can see how features were implemented?

No objections till now. But March is like, three days away.

I think that is the point!

I agree with making the source code available, for sure. That seems like something that would be beneficial.

I don't know if this would count as a "theme" per se or not, but I saw something similar being done for a speed-IF competition and I thought the idea was neat. What if the "goal" of the competition was to take the tutorial game and flesh it out into a full game? It could be interesting to see all of the different ideas and directions people would take it.

Oh god please don't do anything with the tutorial game.

Alex wrote:Oh god please don't do anything with the tutorial game.

Aw c'mon! Bob's Defibrillator Quest could be the hottest thing to hit the IF scene since Infocom!

The Pixie wrote:
Couple of comments:
HTML-editing is kind of the same as panes.
Light and dark are new to Quest, but have been a part of text adventures from the very beginning. Good to see it in Quest finally, but not good for a "feature-related theme" in my opinion. I think we should look at features that are special to Quest, whether new or not.

I wouldn't restrict the technical themes. Light and dark aren't special to Quest, but if they are used in an new, interesting or amazing way in Quest they should be welcomed. Anyway the author should explain the special features of his game. This makes it easier to evaluate the game

sgreig wrote:Aw c'mon! Bob's Defibrillator Quest could be the hottest thing to hit the IF scene since Infocom!

Great idea! Every game must include a Bob and a defibrillator !

Pertex wrote:I wouldn't restrict the technical themes. Light and dark aren't special to Quest, but if they are used in an new, interesting or amazing way in Quest they should be welcomed. Anyway the author should explain the special features of his game. This makes it easier to evaluate the game

Great idea! Every game must include a Bob and a defibrillator !

What I was thinking when I included light and darkness as "features" was that they are explicitly implemented in the GUI (the main attraction to Quest, arguably), which makes them a specific feature of Quest, if not an exclusive one.

I... I really like the idea of having Bob and a defibrillator in every game. Should we make it easy on everyone and say just Bob and his defibrillator, or should we put the whole tutorial house in there?

I wrote:
[list]
Feature-related themes:
[*]Using the auto-mapping in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using the POV switching in an "interesting" way[/*]
[*]Using Light/Darkness in an "interesting" way[/*]
These are based off of features that aren't new, but are features of quest nonetheless:
[*]Taking a given photo or set of photos and using them in your game[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of links within the game's text[/*]
[*]"Interesting" or innovative use of panes (I would say of any of the visual customization that Quest allows, but much of that is half-implemented[/*]
[/list:u]

[list]
Game themes:
[*]Haunted[/*]
[*]Hunger[/*]
[*]Futuristic[/*]
[*]Alone[/*]
[*]Repentance[/*]
[*]Journey[/*]
[*]Plague[/*]
[*]Revenge[/*]
[*]Steam[/*]
[*]Dreams[/*]
[*]Limitation[/*]
[/list:u]

Newly-Suggested Feature Theme:
[list]
[*]Include tutorial content (at least Bob and the defibrillator[/*]
[/list:u]

Do we have any other suggestions for themes? Because almost all of these are mine and I feel bad.

Instead of Bob and defibrillator (BaD), we could have a puzzle involving something that can magically revive a a dead person, be it a defibrillator or a REVIVE spell or a Pulsantresuscitaremortuumhominem. (That's 'magically revive a dead person' in Latin, if you ask.)

Would it be ok, if the game only runs offline? There are some problems with timers in the online player, but I would like to do some timer work

@sonic: in order to keep with the idea that it plays off the tutorial game I would strongly suggest we stay with 'Bob' and a defibrillator, if for no other reason than to help judging. If it helps, you could always employ casting defibrillate on Sir Robert to revive him, or you could use a defibrilaticus to revive a roman.
The themes are meant to challenge your creativity, so get creative!

I agree with Pertex that it shouldn't be necessary that games work in the online player. I've had tons of trouble with the online player and I'd just prefer that my work not be shown on it.

If it's offline Non-windows can't play the game, unless somebody teaches them how to use the Geas Gargoyle interpreter.

I'm not familiar with that program, but I know there is a program called Wine that can also be used to run Quest on other machines. There are alternatives, and while none of them are perfect solutions, from personal experience I can say that there are some features that work perfectly offline that will completely break the game when online.
My best proposed solution to this is, if you can't get your game to run correctly online, to include a warning in the description stating that any judges who can't play Quest games offline should simply refrain from input on those games. That hurts the author more than anything, but if you want to use timers, it's just about your only option.
Any other ideas?

So, Quest 5.4 Beta is out, and today is March 1st. I believe there was some suggestion of settling on a theme and features list at this point. Is there going to be formalized voting, or is "an official" going to determine them?

I have a little paranoia from past experiences when there was no specific coordinator for things like this, so I just want to make sure we stay on course.

As a disclaimer, also based on past experiences, my pushing this issue should NOT be viewed as any sort of desire or suggestion that I be put in charge of anything. I tried that once ... it didn't go well.

We should keep this competition as agile as possible. The list is a good basement but if anybody wants to do something complete different, he should be welcomed, too. As a judge I want to be amazed

A coordinator would be a good thing. Is there anybody who would do this job?

Alright, so... I assume Pertex is talking about the list of features from which to pick, and not the (currently single-word) theme. I, too was under the impression that we would use the existing list as a base(since it's not that big) and just have competitors implement 2-3 interesting features and then explain them. It was discussed that every Quest game have some sort of nod to the tutorial game in it, so I suppose that should be made the only constant requirement besides the other list of themes.
On the topic of the other list: it is a list that I made completely by myself with only my own suggestions except for one of the suggestions, which TriangleGames made. That's fine with me, but if we're voting, then the voting time has come and I'm inclined to discourage additions now...

On that subject, I think one of two things should happen:
A.) Everybody votes. So that I'm not a liar and so there is a specific time at which voting is over, let's say anyone who posts a vote on this thread before 12:00 PM, March 2nd GMT will have their vote counted. Anyone who considers themselves qualified to count to ten can then count the votes and post the results at any point thereafter. The problem with this is what I regard as the most likely outcome: what happens if no two people vote for the same theme? I would say let a mod decide. You mods have seniority and picking a theme should be one of the easiest parts of the process of getting this thing off the ground; let's not make it difficult.

B.) It's Alex's website. Alex's program. Let Alex decide. Alex Warren--King of QuestComp! (in response to to Triangle's suggestion about letting an official decide)

If we're all voting, my vote for theme goes to Plague. I'm inclined to suggest that everybody else do the same just so that if there's no other update on the issue by tomorrow, we'll have our answer just the same, and we can move on and make this happen.

I am talking about the list of features AND the list of themes. Why do we need a special theme?

homeeman wrote:... I, too was under the impression that we would use the existing list as a base(since it's not that big) and just have competitors implement 2-3 interesting features and then explain them. ...

I was looking at this a little differently, but upon further thought this totally makes sense to me now.

Pertex wrote:I am talking about the list of features AND the list of themes. Why do we need a special theme?

This again puzzles me now that I'm thinking about it again. I suppose we don't really NEED to pick one specific story-theme, but various things mentioned in support of it have been (roughly paraphrased): to inspire writers, to prevent someone entering a game they’ve already been working on (for fairness), as judging criteria, to create a focused goal for the contest, and the fun of seeing how differently people interpret the theme.
That said, I suppose judges could still examine each entrants use of their theme even if they all had a different one, as long as they mention the theme they chose in the game's description, and the goal at this point seems to be "showing off" Quest.

My "just-in-case-we're-voting" vote is Hunger (yeah, that's right, I picked one I suggested, ya wanna fight about it? ).

Yes, initially I didn't think a special theme was necessary, but everyone was really in favor of it.
Personally, I don't see the point of having anyone say that there is a single-word theme to their game if everyone doesn't adhere to the same one, because that's the same as putting it in a genre. We do that with every game.
I don't really care whether or not we do themes, but I really would hate to see this thing shot down now.

I think there should be a new topic: QuestComp 2013 Theme Vote. In there Alex or someone else would list a few themes, and anyone can vote until a fixed date. And obviously you can only vote once.

Then the votes shall be counted, and let the games begin!

Perhaps we can even show the best game to the IF community outside Quest to prove Quest is (one of, if not the) best.

As for hunger, there should be a guideline of no hunger puzzles, unless it is well crafted. You should know most IFers hate hunger puzzles. To fit the hunger theme, you could have a mouse hunting for cheese, deer hunting, etc.

What about a QuestComp section in da forums?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "hunger puzzle," but at this point I'd be just as happy with a random theme or even no theme if it would mean moving closer to getting the whole thing rolling.

Hunger puzzles

Earlier in this discussion, I would chime in with "Sounds to me nobody cares if there's a theme or not, so let's say no theme," but I'm learning and now I know better. It seems like a theme is on the table, but we're split as to how we should deal with it. More on that in a moment.
It has become apparent that this is the most important time in this competition's life. If we can move past this point, chances are high that it'll come to pass. But the way things are going, this idea is going to die unless it gets a serious boost very soon. We need to get past this hump.
With this in mind, let's just not have a theme this year. In later years, sure let's do it. But it's killing us right now, and if not having a theme is the difference between sinking or swimming, we need to just do away with it, I think.
Assuming we'll still make use of the feature list (since nobody has said that they don't want to lately) then we need to move on to setting a date and a place for the entries, judges, and a place where votes can be cast.

Okay, this thing looks suspiciously like it's going nowhere, and I think that would be a shame, especially since Alex seemed to think it was a good idea. So, I volunteer to be the coordinator. All I need is approval from a mod, and I'll hit the ground running. Before you decide, let me say:
1. Since only one person cast a vote for story theme other than me, and no one objected to it, I'd make the story theme Plague.
2. If Alex wants to, he can change the story theme or veto it all together (as was said, it is his site after all).
3. If Alex/mods want the contest advertized on another website(s), I will ask them to do that, so it will look more official.
4. Since I mentioned having a bad experience before, I'd be happy to explain that if anyone wants me to. It's kind of a long story, but mostly it went badly for ME, if that's any comfort.
5. I hadn't decided whether to enter or not. So, if people would prefer the coordinator not enter, that's no problem, but let me know.
6. The main theme will be to use the special features and advantages of Quest in a creative/impressive way, as described.
7. I would treat "Bob" and "Defibrillator" as a running gag that everyone can feel free to participate in, but with the caveat that people not make it a "major" portion of the game.

Let me know if there's anything else people want to know before I take the job.

Re: Hunger Puzzles
Ohhh, hunger puzzles. Yeah, I hate that so much that it didn't even occur to me someone might interpret it that way. Now that you've pointed that out, I don't even want to suggest it anymore, lol.

I'm ok with TriangleGames being the coordinator. I would have volunteered for the position myself, but I have a lot of things going on at the moment and I'm afraid I would drop the ball. I'm willing to volunteer my services for some administrative capacity as long as it has some flexibility.

Actually, I'm pretty much ok with everything TriangleGames said, lol.

Now just to find time to fit this all in...

Wow, I was beginning to think no one was really interested in the idea enough to step up to the plate, including myself (I'll indulge in making the excuse that I have a horrible month of Electrical Engineering exams ahead of me). Let me know if you need any help, Triangle, I'll gladly pitch in if things take a turn for the worse for you; you're not alone.
So, if we're really getting things rolling on this, step two is to inform people who might be interested: the primary audience being people who create Quest games I'd imagine. I'll go ahead and put a post up on the Quest Games forum, hopefully interested parties will see it and they can start work on their games.
I'd like to include a deadline on that post as soon as possible, so I'll try to follow Triangle's example and take the initiative to put that at the forefront of or "To Do" list. I believe it was said that the beginning of June worked well for a deadline in relation to other IF competitions, correct me if I'm wrong. Do we want to set that as a tentative deadline?

Also, Triangle, I think it would be a shame if you couldn't participate in this comp, especially if you're willing to put so much effort into making it happen.

Edit: I meant beginning of June. It looks like you caught that.

Awesome, thanks for the support guys! I want to give people as much time as possible for design while minimizing overlap with major comps, so I've been doing some research at intfiction, SpringThing and IFcomp. I think the deadline for game entries should be May 31/June 1 (allowing for time zones). Tomorow I'll look into how Alex would like the official contest thread (forum? site?) set-up and write out all the rules, although I'm sure they'll be pretty much what you'd expect.

One other question I have at the moment is whether or not the comp should include both text adventures and game books. To me it seems a little like apples and oranges for judging, but I'm still new to the IF community, so maybe that's just me. I was thinking, since Quest offers special/separate handling for GB's, we could label this comp "TA Quest Comp" and do a separate "GB Quest Comp" later this year. Does that sound good, or should they just all be accepted in the same comp?

Been following this thread with interest although I don't think I could write something from scratch if I took 3 years let alone 3 months.
My forte is translating old games written in BASIC or other language and I haven't seen any with Bobs or defibrillators in them yet.

But for my 2c worth here, I suggest that you allow both TA & GB styles and vote each in its own category. Then everybody gets to use the new features at the same time. (even though the features will be different for each style)

Good luck everyone who enters.

Since it's 6 March, why don't we have the games begin on 10th March 12:00 GMT+00:00 and judging begin on 10th May 12:00 GMT+00:00 and begin of June be the judging deadline?

And we could allow ADRIFT along with Quest, just for fun. (Like how HugoComp allowed ZIL).

Here are a set of rules I just made: Triangle?

1. No copyright violations and all those stuff.
2. Games should be playable in 2 hours.
3. Only ADRIFT and Quest allowed, any version.

Quest Text Adventures and Adrift TA would be judged seperately, like old IFComp's Inform and TADS.

Triangle, it would be good to post an official Comp post in the forum.

I can't quite tell whether you saw this yet or not...
"Tentative" QuestComp Topic in Quest Games forum

Here's PART of what's posted there:

TriangleGames wrote:The following is a preview which should be enough for entrants to start declaring their intent to participate and begin work on their games. I am currently waiting for some feedback from Alex ...

QuestComp 2013
The primary goal of authors entering the competition (aside from making a quality game)
is to use the features and capabilities of Quest in exciting and innovative ways.
...there is also a creative theme (Plague), to inspire and challenge your writing skills.
Details are in the "Rules For Entrants And Submissions" section, below.

Dates
March 31: Deadline for declaring intent to enter
May 31: Deadline for submitting finished games
June 31: Date for completion of judging
NOTE: To allow for time-zone differences, exact cut-off for deadlines is 12 noon GMT (8am EDT) of the following day.

Part of the reason I've chosen these dates is that it will provide people about the same amount of time to make games as SpringThing did (based on when it was announced at intfiction). If I understand your suggestion correctly, that would actually allow LESS time.

EDIT:

sonic102 wrote:ADRIFT and Quest allowed, any version.

As for including ADRIFT, I would only do that at this point if Alex said he wanted me to. I'm not real familiar with the greater IF community, and I know absolutely nothing about ADRIFT. So far, part of the focus of the competition has been to promote Quest.
regarding "any version" of Quest, I just started using Quest, and I don't know how different it is from 4.x. Someone would have to let me know whether it makes sense to have 4.x and 5.x games together for this comp. I'm not against it, it just hadn't occurred to me.

Didn't see that post.
As for any version, I meant 5.3, 5.4 etc, but 4.x can go as well.

Don't really see the point of allowing non-Quest games - and there's no facility on the website to handle them, so I would suggest Quest-only is a better approach.

I doubt anybody would want to enter a 4.x game anyway, and if the idea is to show off new features then there's no reason to use the old system - it's really a completely different system to 5.x. I would suggest requiring 5.3 or 5.4.

Okay ... Alex is planning to set up a whole separate section for QuestComp when I send him the final version of the rules etc., which I have finished, but my e-mail is acting weird and won't send my e-mail to him, sooo... I'm just gonna put it right here in a code view and hope he sees it. I guess he can just copy it or something.
HERE IT IS:

[b][size=200]QuestComp 2013[/size][/b]

Welcome to QuestComp 2013, the very first Quest exclusive IF competition!
With v5.4 (beta) up and running, Quest has more to offer designers than ever,
like scripts for gamebooks, a new text processor, and script specific code viewing.
So, join the adventure, and be a [i]Quest[/i]ing hero!


[b][u][size=150]Competition Overview[/size][/u][/b]
The primary goal of authors entering the competition (aside from making a quality game) is to use the features and capabilities of Quest in exciting and innovative ways.

Since IF is a text-based game medium, good writing is key to a good game. So, there is also a creative theme ([b]Plague[/b]), to inspire and challenge your writing skills. Details are in the "Rules For Entrants And Submissions" section, below.

Like the classic hero, your reward will be honor, respect and glory.
Fortune smiles upon thee! There is also no entrance fee.

[b][u][size=150]Dates[/size][/u][/b]
[b][u]March 31[/u][/b]: Deadline for declaring intent to enter
I also ask that anyone interested in judging please volunteer by this date, as I will be using the ratio of entrants to judges in finalizing both the game length and judging period, should they need to be changed.
[b][u]May 31[/u][/b]: Deadline for submitting finished games
[b][u]June 31[/u][/b]: Date for completion of judging
This date may be extended after entrants and judges have been counted.
NOTE: To allow for time-zone differences, exact cut-off for deadlines is 12 noon GMT (8am EDT) of the following day.

[b][u][size=150]Rules For Entrants And Submissions[/size][/u][/b]
[list][*]With the exception of beta testing (which is strongly encouraged), entrants are not to discuss the contents of their game with anyone until after judging is completed and a winner is announced.
[b]ENTERING[/b]
[*]All entrants must declare their intent to compete no later than March 31.
[*]Each entrant will submit one(1) game only, no later than May 31.
[*]By entering, you certify that your submitted game is a new, original, and previously unreleased work created by you.
[b]LEGAL[/b]
[*]Entrants assume personal responsibility for the legality of their work, and may be disqualified if their game includes any copyrighted material, unless they have received written permission from the copyright holder. Bear in mind that while the right to parody is protected, it hinges on clearly satirizing the work in question.
[*]Entrants grant the competition and textadventures.co.uk the non-exclusive right to distribute your game for free.
[b]SUBMISSIONS[/b]
[*]The creative theme is [b]Plague[/b]. You are encouraged to use the theme in any way you like, and you may stretch your personal interpretation as far as it is still recognizable. Just for reference purposes:
[url=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plague?s=t]Dictionary.com/Plague[/url]
[*]Submissions must be made using Quest 5.3 or 5.4 beta. Your use of Quest's features will be judged individually based on the features you select.
[*]Games must be completable by the organizer and must include a walkthrough
[*]Games should be approximately 1-1/2 to 2 hours long
[*]Each submission is to focus on 1 to 3 specific features of Quest selected from the following list. MAKE SURE to state which feature(s) you selected when you submit your game.[/list]
[quote][b]Features[/b]
[list][list][*]Auto-mapping
[*]POV switching
[*]Light/Darkness
[*]Multimedia content (use it well, not profusely, IF is [i]text based[/i])
[*]Inserted links within main text body ("ObjectLink" "ExitLink" etc)
[*]Panes and/or UI customization
—NEW/IMPROVED IN QUEST 5.4
[*]New text processor
[*]Gamebook scripts
[*]Scope controlled object/exit hyperlink activity
[*]Enhanced list and dictionary attribute types[/list][/list][/quote]

EXTRA CHALLENGE BONUS: re-imagine Bob and the defibrillator from the Quest tutorial game

[b][u][size=150]Rules For Judges[/size][/u][/b]
[list][*]Judges are encouraged to play each game as long as they want and try to finish each one. However, they are not required to finish before voting (especially if the game takes more than about 1-1/2 to 2 hours). There is no minimum time length that must be spent on each game.
[*]There is currently no minimum number of games which must be played to qualify the judges' votes.
[*]Anyone may judge. Please volunteer early, so we know how many judges vs games we have.
[*]Games should be scored on a 1 to 10 scale, 10 being best.
[*]Judges may discuss the games during the judging period, but should clearly mark posts/topics, for the benefit of those who want to avoid spoilers.
[*]Beta-testers are allowed to vote on the entries they beta-tested.[/list]

All rules, dates, terms, and conditions are subject to change with the exception of the creative theme and feature choices. All changes will be clearly noted here, and entrants will be directly notified of any changes made after March 31.

@ALEX: Yahoo claims it couldn't send my e-mails, so I'm assuming you got nothing from me today. But, if I accidentally sent you ... several e-mails, then I'm really sorry. Let me know if you want me to reformat this in a different way. I wasn't sure exactly how you were planning to use it, and I still have a saved copy without any tags or formatting.

On a related note, I have no logo for QuestComp. I had an idea, but can't really draw. I sketched a rough outline of what I had in mind, though. If anybody would like to make a nice logo for QuestComp, that would be great. If you want, you can use my idea here as a starting point.

Thanks, those rules sounds good to me. I'll put a page up on the main website in the next day or two, assuming nobody wants to make any modifications.

That picture made me laugh

Alex wrote:That picture made me laugh

I was hoping you'd like that.

It occurs to me now that there's no reference in there to me being the organizer/coordinator OR exactly how to declare intent to enter. I'll make sure that's dealt with once the new page goes up. For now though, people can go ahead and start working on the games, if they haven't already.

@Triangle, I'm going to copy your post and paste it to the IF Forums and edit it a bit. I'm assuming that there is no intent to enter, so anyone can enter. Any objections?

sonic102 wrote:@Triangle, I'm going to copy your post and paste it to the IF Forums and edit it a bit. I'm assuming that there is no intent to enter, so anyone can enter. Any objections?

If you read the other posts, I believe there is an intent to enter deadline date of March 31.

Also, I can probably do up a logo. Are there any specific dimensions?

sonic102 wrote:I'm assuming that there is no intent to enter, so anyone can enter.

I haven't really laid out how or where to declare intent to enter. I'll make sure that's clarified after Alex puts up the new page for the comp. People can certainly get to work on games before than though. So feel free to let people know about it, and tell them they can start working on games, but make sure they know the "official" page isn't up yet. We'll let them know when it is.

sgreig wrote:Also, I can probably do up a logo. Are there any specific dimensions?

I don't have any particular dimensions in mind, but I'm not exactly sure what Alex is putting together, so you might want to see what he says.

Sorry to double post, but I wanted to check up on this.

sonic102 wrote:@Triangle, I'm going to copy your post and paste it to the IF Forums and edit it a bit.

@sonic102: Did you get around to doing that yet? If so, where exactly did you post it?
I looked around on intfiction, but I didn't see anything.
Not that you have to. I can do it myself, but I just don't want to put up a redundant post and look foolish.

It should be in the Competitions section.

Also, I added a little message about ADRIFT, maybe if the public supports we could allow ADGames.

sonic102 wrote:It should be in the Competitions section. Also, I added a little message about ADRIFT, maybe if the public supports we could allow ADGames.

I think Alex has already stated he wants it to be Quest only. Plus, as has already been mentioned, the point of this comp is to promote Quest, not other IF systems, so you might want to remove that. And it should probably also be a rule that nobody posts any information other than copy/pasting official announcements without having one of the comp admins approving it.

Fair enough if you want to remove the ADRIFT rule for this comp.

That said, it might be fun to organise a Quest vs ADRIFT head to head comp some time in the future.

Fair enough, removed the ADRIFT rule.

@Campbell I never knew you had a Quest account!

Off-topic: Did you know Quest vs ADRIFT is basically TADS vs Inform 7? Quest is TADS because it is a bit more powerful and ADRIFT is I7 because it is easier.

Interesting comparison. So far the only IF-IDE's I've used are SUDS and Quest. I'm gonna check out ADRIFT though, when I get some time. I was enjoying SUDS just fine until I saw the conversation where the developer outright refused to include the verb "use" because he personally didn't like it. That's no way to talk to a user base, in my opinion.

How does everyone feel about this for the QuestComp "logo/poster/thingy?"

I like it!

I like it, too! It has sort of a Russian propaganda type feel to it. Join the Quest, comrades

'tis blogg'd.

@sgreig, could do with a version of the logo set against a white background if you can, also the current one is cropped a little oddly... unless that's how it's supposed to look

I've got one done up in a higher resolution... I'll Skype it to you when I see you come online, unless you just want me to post it here.